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Post by Admin on Mar 14, 2006 21:33:44 GMT -5
Let us know what you think!
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Post by tlbauer on Mar 15, 2006 10:36:03 GMT -5
Wow, I've been looking forward to the end of this arc, and now I'm not sure how I feel. I liked everything that you did with Supes and Steel. I never realized Luthor was so violent and bloodthirsty, it was definately a different personality then I'm use to.
The story itself was great. One of the best I've read here. But it did seem kind of like a Superman story with a Green Lanter Corp back up story.
Great job!!!
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Post by starlord on Mar 15, 2006 11:50:43 GMT -5
Great job, Charlie!! Was excellent from beginning to end. And there was more of Steel!! Woo Hoo! Thanks for a great adventure!
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Post by HoM on Mar 15, 2006 12:54:07 GMT -5
Thanks people!
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Dr Dread
Staff 
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Mar 15, 2006 17:28:01 GMT -5
Great arc Charlie, you kept me at the edge of my chair. Some pretty chilling surprises, and was that some foreshadowing?  |
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Post by HoM on Mar 15, 2006 17:28:25 GMT -5
Of course it was |
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Apprentice
Staff
I really need a new avatar...
Posts: 479
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Post by Apprentice on Mar 16, 2006 12:05:37 GMT -5
An excellent conclusion to a spellbinding tale. Great job. Lex Luthor is now my favourite villain.
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Post by HoM on Mar 16, 2006 12:07:29 GMT -5
And that was my aim... There were others, but now I'm claiming that was my main one. |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Mar 16, 2006 17:22:31 GMT -5
I too was thrilled with the arc's end! You did a great job though I was sad to see Jar die... or did he? But, wow... Luthor did it??? That shocked me! What devil will Luthor make a deal with hmmm? Foreshadowing indeed! I was, however, a little shocked at the level of violence Steel used when battling the Bizarro's... but then I reminded myself that they were mindless clones and all was right with the world once again! Brandon, that cover was excellent! Tell me how you made the lense flare green!!! You must! I write & draw the covers for Green Lantern for God sake... I... must... know! All in all I give this issue a huge two thumbs up! But now where's Superman going?  Damn you Charlie! |
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Post by Brandon on Mar 16, 2006 19:02:52 GMT -5
Hey Scott! Thanks for the compliment on the cover.  That was a jam cover by Ramon and myself and a pin-up was included at the end of the story so you can see some of the process of what I did compared to the final product by Ramon. The green lens flare was all him! So you'll have to talk to the man himself to find out the secret of the green flare. |
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Post by brigante133 on Mar 16, 2006 19:09:47 GMT -5
yes. you will have to come to me scott. i may not tell you though, i may not want the effect played out by the time I will start needing it... |
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Post by brigante133 on Mar 16, 2006 20:40:04 GMT -5
man you are terrible at keeping secrets. i am not telling everyone what that signature you have means now am I?
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Post by Lantern Lad on Mar 17, 2006 0:20:38 GMT -5
There I deleted your secret!
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Post by brigante133 on Mar 17, 2006 1:45:31 GMT -5
thank you good sir, editor sir, i appreciate your kindness.
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Post by chris on Mar 17, 2006 16:14:01 GMT -5
Great ending! I enjoyed this whole arc. With this many issues it really had the potential to drag a bit but it didn't at all. Good job keeping the action going all the way.
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Post by HoM on Mar 17, 2006 17:58:00 GMT -5
I love that. "keep the action going all the way"... exalted you be sire! Be sure to pick up ACTION COMICS, your one stop shop for Superman! Well... A Superman written by moi. Adventures is sure to be good.
NOW then. IF you've read BLACK ZERO and enjoyed the story, check out Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Special: Facets, the precursor to this story, and also the starting point for a major arc in a major book coming soon!
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2006 20:45:57 GMT -5
Some folks have wondered at my lack of comment on Charlie's epic "Black Zero" arc, but at the author's insistence (and he knows my feelings), I will now leave him the gift of feedback.
I didn't like it.
I know that puts me in the minority (for which I am glad--- Charlie worked hard on this, and he deserves the satisfaction), but I also don't think my dislike for it is unwarranted. And before anyone thinks to slam me for my criticism, please note that the writer insisted that I post it (and, again, he knows how I feel about it).
What I disliked about "Black Zero"
* Too much guest-star. This is a Superman book, and a significant portion of it was devoted to Jar Kell (did we really need the glimpses into his childhood?)
* I felt that Jar Kell was a "Mary Sue"
* I don't feel that Charlie handled the Clark Kent persona very well (he was always fiddling with his tie, or bumbling around Lois)
* I don't feel that the Kents were presented at all in-character (bit harsh with Superman as he lays dying on that asteroid...)
* A lot of words and space were devoted to Lois and Perry, and yet these characters really had nothing to do in the story (other than for the reader to passively view the action through their eyes, which we very well could have done through John Henry Irons or Maggie Sawyer)
* Superman was, well, kind of a twit. Indecisive and wishy-washy--- until the end when he gets his mojo back somewhat inexplicably (did he kill his dark side? absorb it?)
* And just why did Superman have such a brutal and evil dark side to begin with?!? Nope. Not buying that one!
* There's a place for blood and guts and violence, but this arc is overflowing with it. I count three distinct times where Superman received debilitating, almost disfiguring injuries--- (in fact, I think he broke his punching hand twice)--- and the death of Jar Kell was just plain disgusting, and inappropriate for a Superman story.
* I take great exception to the spastic and savage depiction of Luthor (though I thought he was presented well at the beginning of the arc)--- this is the greatest human intellect?
* Why did Jar Kell, unprovoked, attack Luthor? And how the heck was the Fist of the Guardians taken done by a human in a battlesuit? Because he had yellow underwear?
* An army of Bizarro's, huh? Kinda makes the one I had running around pretty superfluous doesn't it? Sorta waters down the character, doesn't it?
* I'm a smart enough fella, but I still can't for the life of me figure out exactly: 1) Why Superman split into two seperate, physical personalities, 2) How that particular connundrum was resolved, 3) How Black Zero was finally defeated.
* A little heavy on the melodrama (The Pathos of Jar Kell and the whining of Superman).
* Next issue: another cavalcade of guest-stars! Jeez, I think Superman's popular enough now to make it on his own...
That being said, this was a big story, and not one easily pulled off. Charlie put a lot of irons <snicker> in the fire, it's just too bad not all of them got hot.
But the ones that did:
* The zombie attack on the LexCore platform ruled!
* Black Zero has potential to come back and be a cool villain
* Let's explore Black Kryptonite...
* The jury's out on John Henry Irons (not sure we really needed him, or that he did a whole lot for the story--- other than be introduced--- but I like the character, so I'm irrationally happy)
* OMG! Luthor's got a power ring!
All in all, I thought it was a good effort, irregardless of the result, and I am altogether pleased that, for the most part, most of our readers really enjoyed this arc.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Mar 17, 2006 21:05:24 GMT -5
All in all, I thought it was a good effort, irregardless of the result, and I am altogether pleased that, for the most part, most of our readers really enjoyed this arc. If we're passing out criticisms, then I'd just like to say: Irregardless is NOT a real word in the English language. Stop using it!!! |
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Zoom
Staff
Bleargh!!!
Posts: 397
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Post by Zoom on Mar 17, 2006 21:14:03 GMT -5
I liked this issue. But I also think Jar Kell was bad used. He could have survived, I think the brain thing wasn't necessary.
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Post by Brandon on Mar 17, 2006 21:22:16 GMT -5
All in all, I thought it was a good effort, irregardless of the result, and I am altogether pleased that, for the most part, most of our readers really enjoyed this arc. If we're passing out criticisms, then I'd just like to say: Irregardless is NOT a real word in the English language. Stop using it!!! Sure it is. www.thefreedictionary.com/irregardlessI know it's not proper usage but I say it anyway. I just like the sound of it. |
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Mar 17, 2006 21:44:27 GMT -5
Irregardless is as much of a word as is hwu&7k. Of course hwu&7k is a word, I've used it in a sentence. Twice even!
Looks like irregardless will follow the path of "ain't" through the English vernacular. *sigh*
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Post by Brandon on Mar 17, 2006 22:26:01 GMT -5
Well, if it effectively conveys an idea... just sayin'. |
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Post by brigante133 on Mar 18, 2006 0:31:29 GMT -5
I have got to say that the one issue i had in it was the guest star mania. i remember when charlie plotted it he asked who he should bring in at the end and i was like, "CHARLIE, its SUPERMAN! you don't need batman and wonder woman and all that. all you need is superman!" i think he added a few guys.  either way i still read it because he forced a knife to my throat and I liked it okay irregardlass of its flaws. |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Mar 18, 2006 0:49:44 GMT -5
I liked it... it had a lot of guest stars & was overly violent at times (John Henry splitting heads, and Jar Kells dripping brains for example), but I still found it an entertaining read.
Ramon, you were demoted from God-hood huh? Bummer!
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Post by brigante133 on Mar 18, 2006 1:05:48 GMT -5
exactly what i said. now i know what it sounds like when doves cry. because they did the moment i descended from the heavens to turn assistant.
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Post by HoM on Mar 18, 2006 5:37:58 GMT -5
Wooo. I thought I knew all your feelings about it but wow. Seriously. I'm staggered Dave. Not that that is a bad thing, obviously, because any critisism helps me improve *snickers* but to make my ego feel a bit better, I'll reply to your every concern later.
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Post by tlbauer on Mar 18, 2006 6:09:03 GMT -5
As much as I liked it, I do have to agree with Idlewilder on three issues.
The guest stars were overdone.
It was the absolute bloodiest Superman story I have ever read.
And Luthor was written poorly at the end. He really came across as some kind of blood thirsty maniac.
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Post by HoM on Mar 18, 2006 8:45:39 GMT -5
Ok then people, spoilers and such below: Hee hee. Everyone has an opinion. * Too much guest-star. This is a Superman book, and a significant portion of it was devoted to Jar Kell (did we really need the glimpses into his childhood?) In the glimpse of his childhood, I was trying to show him facing his greatest fear, as Hal Jordan did when his father's plane exploded before his very eyes. I wanted to give the characters back story, because I don't like two dimensional characters. * I felt that Jar Kell was a "Mary Sue" Seriously? If I was May Sueing this is what would have happened: Jar defeats Evil Superman in Space
Jar travels to the Phantom Zone
Jar whups Black Zero's ass
Jar gets some trim from Lois Lane and Lana Lang
Superman sits in his Fortress wondering why he isn't as cool as that smooth operator known as Jar Kell.Are you suggesting I was trying to say I want to be beaten to death by a bald guy? * * I don't feel that Charlie handled the Clark Kent persona very well (he was always fiddling with his tie, or bumbling around Lois) Oh my God! I can't believe this was a problem! This is classic Golden Age characterisation of Clark Kent! And as you seem to be a fan of the Golden Age continuity of Superman, who am I do digress? Heh. * * I don't feel that the Kents were presented at all in-character (bit harsh with Superman as he lays dying on that asteroid...) They were hallucinations. They were telling Clark what he wanted to hear. He needed a swift kick upt arse to get him working again. * * A lot of words and space were devoted to Lois and Perry, and yet these characters really had nothing to do in the story (other than for the reader to passively view the action through their eyes, which we very well could have done through John Henry Irons or Maggie Sawyer) I understand that, and I had this subplot I wanted to play with the characters, but I didn't want each issue to be fourteen pages long, and you didn't quite like it. I apoligise! * * Superman was, well, kind of a twit. Indecisive and wishy-washy--- until the end when he gets his mojo back somewhat inexplicably (did he kill his dark side? absorb it?) Yeah well. Superman's a twit. Heh. His whole pysche was being attacked by an ancient evil, beginning with his exposure near the space station! It was causing him to question his every move, and his mojo (hee hee) came back once he realised that these lies that Black Zero was whispering were false. Or you could interpret it in your own way. Again, sorry. * * And just why did Superman have such a brutal and evil dark side to begin with?!? Nope. Not buying that one! Everyone has dark feelings, and this guy has faced countless bad guys, countless evils, and hes lead himself to believe that his planet's inhabitants are evil (remember, he's only really met three, and they were all evile! so this causes a guy to question his true nature)... But yeah, well, this is fictional prose, not a true to life account. * * There's a place for blood and guts and violence, but this arc is over flowing with it. I count three distinct times where Superman received debilitating, almost disfiguring injuries--- (in fact, I think he broke his punching hand twice)--- and the death of Jar Kell was just plain disgusting, and inappropriate for a Superman story. Villain's don't pussyfoot around! I'm totally sticking by what I've done there, because it's not like these guys were going to go easy on each other! * * I take great exception to the spastic and savage depiction of Luthor (though I thought he was presented well at the beginning of the arc)--- this is the greatest human intellect? *anger* That's why. Luthor was angry because Evil Superman said something to him off panel (it's in Action Comics #2 I think) that causes him to be shook to the core. Only when he realises that this guy was a fake does he get back into the game, and he's angry that there are two Supermen running around. * * Why did Jar Kell, unprovoked, attack Luthor? And how the heck was the Fist of the Guardians taken done by a human in a battlesuit? Because he had yellow underwear? When Kell was rescued by Luthor, Kell's ring somehow saw the yellow in his soul. Kell was sickened that he was rescued by someone so evil, and he felt sick just being near him. He didn't know about Luthor's stature on Earth, he just knew he was evil, and Green Lantern's don't like evil, so he did what came naturally. Luthor injected Kell with a mind numbing agent that made him unable to make constructs. It's all there. * * An army of Bizarro's, huh? Kinda makes the one I had running around pretty superfluous doesn't it? Sorta waters down the character, doesn't it? Nope. * * I'm a smart enough fella, but I still can't for the life of me figure out exactly: 1) Why Superman split into two seperate, physical personalities, 2) How that particular connundrum was resolved, 3) How Black Zero was finally defeated. Black Kryptonite has been established to split people in two halves, ones normal self, and ones evil side. Read Supergirl, I think, or watch Smallville, where the idea for this story came from. Without Black Zero powering the Black K, the double just stopped existing, and crumbled away to nothingness. I should have stated that more clearly, sorry. Superman forced Black Zero to confront the truth that he wasn't a God, and he wasn't going to beat Superman because good cannot be defeated by evil. These events in this arc were the acts of a dying creature, as stated in the story, but once again, if it wasn't stated clearly, oops. * * A little heavy on the melodrama (The Pathos of Jar Kell and the whining of Superman). Yeah well. I've stated in the above the reasons for Supes wussiness, but the Pathos of Jar? I dunno. That's his character. * * Next issue: another cavalcade of guest-stars! Jeez, I think Superman's popular enough now to make it on his own... Ah, but... It's cool next issue, and it makes sense. But in your Adventures debut, I think... Yeah, with Captain Marvel, it went like this: Superman: "I need help! I know, Captain Marvel!" C C Batson: "I can't remember being Captain Marvel." Superman: *long internal monologue establishing Captain Marvel in the DC2 and then flying away* * * The zombie attack on the LexCore platform ruled! * Black Zero has potential to come back and be a cool villain * Let's explore Black Kryptonite... * The jury's out on John Henry Irons (not sure we really needed him, or that he did a whole lot for the story--- other than be introduced--- but I like the character, so I'm irrationally happy) * OMG! Luthor's got a power ring! I love zombie films! Especially the Romero quadrilogy, more precisely the original Dawn of the Dead. So it was a bit of fanboyism coming through there, and a fun part to write. Oh yes he does, yes he does indeed... Maybe, we'll see about that one... What I was doing with the Steel character, and the Major Crimes Unit, was establishing them as heavy hitters in Metropolis. We didn't really have a cast for the Superman titles apart from the Daily Planet staff and Max Lord as president (wtf!?!) so I was trying to flesh out Metropolis as it were. Aha! Yes, Luthor has a power ring, and that will be played out in the next arc, before IXE blows up in our faces and we get some hard hitting prose from the DC2 crew! * All in all, I thought it was a good effort, irregardless of the result, and I am altogether pleased that, for the most part, most of our readers really enjoyed this arc. I indeed hope y'all did. |
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Post by Brandon on Mar 18, 2006 9:35:01 GMT -5
Y'know, I'm a self-admitted fanfic noob, so I forget the lingo sometimes. I went out and rechecked on "Mary Sue" anf found a neat little backstory on the term which I'll share with you now: www.subreality.com/marysue/explain.htm |
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Post by HoM on Mar 18, 2006 9:56:06 GMT -5
Yikes, Dave! You really dissed me!
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