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Post by HoM on Aug 19, 2009 16:54:27 GMT -5
Please tell us what you thought of the finale to this story arc!
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Quester
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Post by Quester on Aug 19, 2009 19:06:19 GMT -5
Dude I love that those two lines an issue or two ago that I picked up on turned out to be who thought they were. I just about wet myself reading that last section. And as for how Dick escaped that was for me the moment when I went "Ok he really is Batman." Ive been clinging to the fact that 'its just Dick playing dress up cos he has to' but for me that was a turning point. I loved Croc but my only problem with this issue was Charaxes. Why? Why did he need to be there. I dont like him as a character in the first place but he just felt like he'd been thrown in to distract Babs and Tim. Only a minor thing that I got over fast but for me this was a solid issue that I thoroughly enjoyed and felt very in nature with Gotham.
One more thing. I felt uncomfortable at the end (intentional or not I dont know) but I never like it when theres too many people in the Bat-Cave. Anymore than two really (Bats and Alf, or Bats and Tim is cool but even Bats, Alf and Tim makes me cringe). It feels such a safe haven that shouldn't be broken. A place where people shouldn't be save for Batman and his very closest extensions. So in a way well done with that cos it made me uneasy which I guess the whole build up at the end was for.
And Flesh Monger made me feel sick. So well done again lol....
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Post by HoM on Aug 20, 2009 19:27:27 GMT -5
Dude I love that those two lines an issue or two ago that I picked up on turned out to be who thought they were. I just about wet myself reading that last section. Clean yourself up, and let's continue, Rob! And as for how Dick escaped that was for me the moment when I went "Ok he really is Batman." Ive been clinging to the fact that 'its just Dick playing dress up cos he has to' but for me that was a turning point. Yeah, that was the idea. Dick is Batman. That's not going to change. And that moment has been in my mind since the arc started-- he'd take the pain, and the hurt, the torture, and use a beam of hope to fight against it all. It's from a line in Knightfall, that went something along the lines of this: " I take all that pain and that hurt, I put it in a box, and I file it away in the back of my head." It was fun to deliver, and I'm glad you liked. I loved Croc but my only problem with this issue was Charaxes. Why? Why did he need to be there. I dont like him as a character in the first place but he just felt like he'd been thrown in to distract Babs and Tim. Only a minor thing that I got over fast but for me this was a solid issue that I thoroughly enjoyed and felt very in nature with Gotham. You've got no problem with Killer Croc, but you've got a problem with Charaxes?! Aha! Charaxes had appeared in an earlier issue of my run, and it was, whilst not foreshadowing, part of the build up to this arc, and the idea that Brimstone was taking the minds of the animalistic monsters of Gotham and using them for his own machinations. Croc was from my Detective Comics run, where he was used against the Suicide Squad. I wanted to bring all the monsters out, and Croc is going to play a role in the Bat-books later down the line. One more thing. I felt uncomfortable at the end (intentional or not I dont know) but I never like it when theres too many people in the Bat-Cave. Anymore than two really (Bats and Alf, or Bats and Tim is cool but even Bats, Alf and Tim makes me cringe). It feels such a safe haven that shouldn't be broken. A place where people shouldn't be save for Batman and his very closest extensions. So in a way well done with that cos it made me uneasy which I guess the whole build up at the end was for. Dick is a different Batman. That's the whole point. He's not grim and gritty, he's open, and willing to work toward being better. These people, right now, are part of the "Bat-Family", and I can kind of see there being a difference between Bruce's style-- soldiers, and Dick's-- family. It was an intentional choice, and I'm glad it stuck out. And Flesh Monger made me feel sick. So well done again lol.... For the conclusion to Flesh Monger's arc, check out this month's issue of Detective Comics. It's pretty damn sick. |
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Quester
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Post by Quester on Aug 21, 2009 6:26:53 GMT -5
Croc being in Gotham's sewers is fine cos as soon as someone goes underground in Gotham you expect him to be there. I saw all the buildup and links with Charaxes but it didnt work for me. Maybe just cos I dont like the character.
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Post by HoM on Aug 21, 2009 6:42:39 GMT -5
Croc being in Gotham's sewers is fine cos as soon as someone goes underground in Gotham you expect him to be there. I saw all the buildup and links with Charaxes but it didnt work for me. Maybe just cos I dont like the character. It's because you're a hater, Rob. That's why  I can see where you're coming from, but to me, the different characters clicked into place and it made sense. Thanks again for reading, dude. |
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Quester
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Post by Quester on Aug 21, 2009 6:52:35 GMT -5
On another note I had a massive problem with the cover. Mainly: how come I dont get a 'dark knight' costume lol. Im kiddin obviously, though it works really really well for Todd its such a sweet costume that everyone should have one. Though I wonder whether the choice to not have a cape is purely a visual thing cos it looks kinda cool without one or whether it is part of his character. I can see him wanted to be a harder, scaled down version of Batman who is all practicality and brutality yet when hes described working in the shadows you get the feeling a cape would add to the sense of fear he wants to cast in the same way Bruce and Dick have done before. Anyhoo...
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Post by HoM on Aug 21, 2009 6:55:38 GMT -5
On another note I had a massive problem with the cover. Mainly: how come I dont get a 'dark knight' costume lol. Im kiddin obviously, though it works really really well for Todd its such a sweet costume that everyone should have one. Though I wonder whether the choice to not have a cape is purely a visual thing cos it looks kinda cool without one or whether it is part of his character. I can see him wanted to be a harder, scaled down version of Batman who is all practicality and brutality yet when hes described working in the shadows you get the feeling a cape would add to the sense of fear he wants to cast in the same way Bruce and Dick have done before. Anyhoo... Jason doesn't like the tug of the cape. It throws him off balance, and it's a constant reminder of Bruce's weakness and almost "showmanship". It's mentioned in some of the earlier issues, and maybe in The Dark Knight Nemesis Prologue? He's a weapon, and he doesn't need to be held back. He doesn't need to strike fear into the hearts of the scum of Gotham-- he needs to strike his fist into them. Repeatedly. |
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Quester
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Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Aug 21, 2009 6:57:36 GMT -5
Ok yeah that works lol think i remember reading it now too. Also it looks better.
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Post by HoM on Aug 21, 2009 7:25:15 GMT -5
Ok yeah that works lol think i remember reading it now too. Also it looks better. It looks bloody brilliant  |
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rapscallion86
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Subtlety: The mark of a good superhero. Right, Brainiac 5?
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Post by rapscallion86 on Aug 22, 2009 13:57:07 GMT -5
I'll get this part out of the way because I feel it must be said. This issue was kind of a cheat from last issue. Last time we read, everything was going to crap and the Bat-Family were moments from doom with their heads on the ground. Then this issue there didn't seem to be nearly as much damage as implied. That felt lame to me.
Other than that WOW! This issue was the bomb! Taking that beginning line and then showing it in context later on, Dick has truly become bad-ass. If anyone questioned whether or not Dick could inherit the mantle, they have been rightly shut up by this story.
The best part of this story is the simplicity of it. This was a clear and true Batman story where he simply uses the utter recesses of his super powerful mind to beat the bad guys most nefarious plans. Bruce couldn't have delivered on something better if he tried.
Black Mask and Flesh Monger are the sickest pair I have ever seen. Look out Joker and Harley!
I hope to see more of Jason because even though I dine the whole swearing thing to be a little over-done, he is still a truly awesome character to read about.
I'm looking forward to the next Bat-Event and good job with the ending on this one.
-D.L. Mann
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Post by HoM on Aug 22, 2009 15:41:10 GMT -5
I'll get this part out of the way because I feel it must be said. This issue was kind of a cheat from last issue. Last time we read, everything was going to crap and the Bat-Family were moments from doom with their heads on the ground. Then this issue there didn't seem to be nearly as much damage as implied. That felt lame to me. Well, I'm sorry if took you out of the story, but I always think... no matter how bad things get, these guys can get out of it. Jason didn't even have the anti-toxin, he just fought the effects and went bat-£$%^ crazy on Killer-Croc-- whose story isn't done, btw-- whilst Babs and Tim showed their true colours by thinking around the problem. Sorry if it was disappointing! Other than that WOW! This issue was the bomb! Taking that beginning line and then showing it in context later on, Dick has truly become bad-ass. If anyone questioned whether or not Dick could inherit the mantle, they have been rightly shut up by this story. Thank you. That was my intent. The best part of this story is the simplicity of it. This was a clear and true Batman story where he simply uses the utter recesses of his super powerful mind to beat the bad guys most nefarious plans. Bruce couldn't have delivered on something better if he tried. Yeah, like I've said before, I knew the line that would give Dick the ability to get out of this trap. He's been trained by the best, he's the perfect distillation of all the heroes that have come before him, and he can get out of anything. That being said, the effects of Brimstone's torture might haunt him in the year to come...
Black Mask and Flesh Monger are the sickest pair I have ever seen. Look out Joker and Harley!
I know, right? And you might want to check out Detective Comics for more of them...!
I hope to see more of Jason because even though I dine the whole swearing thing to be a little over-done, he is still a truly awesome character to read about.
He's very angry. And understandably so. He's front and centre along with the rest of the bat-team in the next event, and it's going to be a roller-coaster for everyone involved.
I'm looking forward to the next Bat-Event and good job with the ending on this one. -D.L. Mann
Me too! Thanks for the kind words, D.L. |
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Post by starlord on Sept 6, 2009 1:27:44 GMT -5
Standing ovation!!! 5 stars! You got me. Dick is Batman. I believe it. Hell, I believe it more at DC2 then I do over at DC. My one little gripe that I kept in the back of my head was that Dick was once again the victim that was going to need saving by Barbara and Tim. Not the case! Thank you for that.
Thank you for this arc. This is Charlie's A game that I love. When you are on, Sir, you are SO on. And let me say, you know Dick and are in top form with him right now.
But if I had to say there was one thing that bothered me, it was the same as Quester. The use of the Batcave. Your reasoning is sound, and I totally get it. It's not the angle I would have went with, but I do get it.
Still, it did nothing to stop me from loving this issue and this arc.
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