Letters to The Question #3

Err..should I be worried that he called himself Victor Zsasz?

Checkmate is involved, somehow....and that worries me.

Edit: And I loved the "pillow talk" and the two (bad?) guys on the road inrigrued me.

There are a lot of things on this site that I'm dying to respond to and read (Doom Patrol), but kids, Christmas party's, and wrapping, have limited my time.

But as Editor for this title I do want to take a moment to take full responsibility for the "present tense". I've always done my best to keep my titles in past tense, unfortunately I had it on my to do list, but lost the list... and this is a hectic month. So my apologies for that. For letting Charlie down as well.

And John... If you REALLY want to know why he gets on with everyone, PM me.

And I'm not writing the book as a reaction to 52, because that's ridiculous! I think the 52 prides itself on good story telling, not copying everything the real DC does! Anyway, I'm writing it because Dave didn't like my other direction.

Thanks to mouseman for rating the book but not sharing WHY it's a three star effort!

But seriously, if you don't like it, tell me why!

PM you?I was more curious why everyone seemed to like him not the other way around. I am curious if you have a big secretive explanation! PM me and tell me if you want. Maybe I am missing something that everyone else seems to get?

I didn't mean that you were copying 52 but from what I've seen, Vic is portrayed in 52 similar to how he is here. Again I don't know because I haven't read any dc comics really since Crisis ended but I hope to catch up somewhat on some titles (like 52) after Christmas.

I am well aware that DC2 prides itself on good storytelling (I always hope to add to that myself) I will assume thats what you meant instead of repeating 52.

As for the present tense. You didn't drop the ball on that, Brian. People are more then welcome to write in that tense. It is my personal preference not to write or read story's in that way. It was explained by an old English prof to me this way "How can a story that has already taken place be in the present tense?" Also if it sounds funny out loud then change it. I read a lot of stuff out loud as I write and read and present tense sounds funny that way. Again those are my preferences and no one should pay them much mind.

I am now curious as to what was the original vision for this title that you changes?

No offense to an accomplished man of letters who obviously has dedicated himself to a life of the mind, but I think he's off his nut.

Or am at least baffled by that kind of narrowing statement. Every form and function, tense and person, and literary device can absolutely be valid when used effectively and in engaging ways. What is what you watch on television and movies if not in present tense, unless the viewer is instructed otherwise, but is it necessarily happening at that moment or being told to you. It is easier to accept that I think in visual form over literature, as the past tense is the safer standard form. But when needed to give a story an edgier and more immediate feel, the present tense is very useful. I've only used this tense on the Flash stories I wrote here at DC2 and it was done intentionally to bring that immediacy and danger in a little closer to the reader. In this tense, for instance, the main character can die and you will have absolutely no warning or safety net device in the narrative, omnipotent enough to view the events unfold real time but powerless to stop any unfortunate fate that may come. While again, in the past tense it is being told to you from a safe place. Someone has survived to calmly relate the tale and you know by the end of the story that safe structure will prevail. All of this is just to say I support Charlie's use of present tense here as I think it fits the style he's working with and is definately as viable as any other. Now if you really want to do some crazy writing to raise the bar, set a story in Second Person and make it work! ;D

Just my thoughts.

And one more thing to Charlie I forgot from above. The disjointed sequence of events did make it a little more difficult to follow until I got a feel for that as well.

It's tough to pull off a present-tense narrative without it sounding juvenile. It lacks a certain elementary sophistication one needs to have with the language, and if not done properly, only sounds clumsy and unaccomplished--- and will yank a reader out of the story faster than a fire on the stove! With all due respect to Charlie, this is the biggest problem with his prose--- a fact that he is well aware of, and has yet to address (Bless him ). He needs to learn to write in past tense, and then get cute with other styles.

Luckily, his stories are usually more interesting than the tense in which they are written (distracting as that can be)!

To be fair, it seems to me a lot of fan fiction is written this way, and few do pull off a present-tense narrative with any success.

Admittedly, what we do here is for fun and not really "important" in a homegenous sense (and we all should be able to accept the gift of honest criticism in the spirit it was given, as has been tediously repeated lately)--- but why shouldn't he learn to walk first before he runs? The stuff I wrote when I was fifeteen is very similar to what Charlie is writing now, so I have some insight into his thought process. Plus, he's solicited--- and I've been providing to him--- my criticism (both public and private) for going on two years now, longer than anyone else has invested in his develoment (well, at least here).




The sophistication comes not from the style, but how effectively the style is used. As I stated in my previous comment, present tense is hard to pull off, and if not done well, can come across as very clunky, and take the reader out of the story. Charlie has a tendancy to get tangled up in his sentences, use 15 words when 7 or 8 might suffice, and to generally be unclear. I feel that if he took a more basic approach (starting with writing in the past tense), he could be a much more effective storyteller.



Agreed. But again, when the style gets in the way of the story, isn't it time to reconsider the style?




Agreed. And let's remember--- Everything Charlie has written for the site (and everything I've ever read by him, actually), has been in the present tense.

Everything.

It's not a stylistic device for him, it's a bad habit he needs to break in order to become a better writer.



Again, I've edited Charlie possibly more and for longer than anybody else here, so I know whereof I speak. The fact of the matter is, his talent as a writer needs to catch up with his amazing imagination. Then we will start to see some really cool stuff from him.



It's amateurish becuase a majority of hack writers employ it. It's amateurish by association, I suppose. Now, if by contrast, Charlie becomes the greatest practitioner of present tense writing, and that's all he ever does, and he is beloved for it--- well, then, great! But let's face it: that's not the case now, his prose is far from perfect (and at times, it can be downright bad), so why not guide him in a direction that will make him more comfortable with language, tell a clearer story and generate more interest in his work? I don't want to enable future missteps for him, but motivate him to improve his craft.



Hey! There's a reason why the "19th century standard of fictional storytelling" is so enduring--- because it works! No doubt language and prose is always evolving, and I'm a fan of experimental styles myself--- but all of those great experimentors had to first grasp the basics firmly before they could turn it on its head! Maybe Charlie will be one of those literary acrobats one day, but he's got some work to do first, and part of the mission of this site is to help him (and me, and you, and you, and you) to get there.

See! He's practically a tense-expert! No reason why he can't master the past tense, now!

Charlie has been invited to take part in this discussion and speak for himself, but has thus far been content to let you speak for him, Brandon.

You haven't noticed much criticism of Charlie's "proper" use of the present tense because of two reasons: 1) It's kind of a lame bit of feedback (after all, I can't remember the last time somebody commented "Hey, loved the way you made everything happen in the past/present/future!"). and 2) I don't approve of it (if it was being used as some stylistic device, as in your Flash story, that's different, but when it's standard operating procedure, and it affects his ability to write good prose, then it's a problem, right?). Now, if you would like evidence of my feedback to Charlie on this, then you would simply have to refer to the last two years worth of PMs and emails and corrected first drafts, if he is willing to supply them. Charlie is not unaware of any of this, but again, chooses to remain silent.

The bit about me being judgmental: I resent it in the context you intended it. When it comes to Charlie, because his work is so ubiquitous on the site (his decision), I find myself being more critical of its quality because it represents us (the DC2) as a whole, and me (to a smaller extent), in my capacity as his sometime-editor, and as the EIC of the DC2. Charlie has continually asked for honest criticism, and I have always obliged him; I rarely leave non-specific feedback for him. As for being judgmental--- I can't afford not to be, to a certain extent. My judgement steers the DC2--- and I happen to think my judgment is pretty damn good (at least, you'd have to work pretty hard to find me an example around here where that wasn't so). I think I know what works, and what doesn't when it come to this sort of stuff (one need only look over the last 16 months of site activity to see that), so when I suggest that Charlie learn to write in the past tense, you can be assured it's for the right reasons (and has little to do with some sort of snobby tense-bias).

Obviously not (and a premise I find both unwarranted and offensive). He doesn't just prefer the present tense, it's all he knows how to use (anything else, such as the examples Doc pointed out, are unintentional). I have talked with Charlie about this: his inclination is to write in the present tense, and to not bother going back to adjust the verbiage. This is why Charlie is so hard on editors--- his editors work very hard to ensure his work is as clear as we can make it, almost as hard as he worked to write the story. I don't know of another writer so dependent on editors. Fixing the tense issue is one good first step to making their lives a lot easier.

I agreed with this earlier, but I'm forced to reiterate that one simply must learn the letter of the law first before one starts re-writing it. Otherwise, you're just lazy and/or egotistical. Not to mention ignorant.

No one has denied Charlie credit for his work on the site (but is there a place where we dole that stuff out?), and in addition, this site has been as good to him as he has been for it (no one is on more often, or has a bigger posting history); if I closed it down tomorrow, Charlie would be the most bereft. As for reward (?) and trust he's been given--- well, we can talk about that privately if you want, but to paraphrase Uncle Ben, with power comes responsibility, and Charlie doesn't want responsibility (and there's nothing wrong with that--- I'd go there myself, if I could).

To suggest that Charlie has been treated harshly, or subject to unfair criticism (and no, I won't ask you to elaborate--- in fact, I implore you not to) is disturbing. I personally haven't noticed it, and I would ask Charlie himself to come to me with it, if he does indeed feel so ill-treated. In fact, Charlie strides the forums of the DC2 like a rockstar, and occassionally his mouth writes checks his ass can't cash (I'm still steaming from that comment he made about John Lennon all those months ago!); if you expose yourself like that, you have to take the hits that come with it! However, I don't know that I've seen harsh or unfair.

This diatribe has completely hijacked Charlie's thread, so I suggest if we want to continued it, we do it privately.

As for the actual issue--- I haven't read it yet. Instead of catching up on my DC2 reading, I find myself drawn into these conversations (which, don't get me wrong, can be productive and useful). As I've stated previously in these lettercols, I'm no fan of the character as Charlie writes him, but I am a fan of Charlie, warts and all--- so while, this title isn't on the top of my list to read, I will read it and leave feedback as soon as I can.

Yup.

And for the past three days I've started writing long posts about this subject, long, self depricating posts, but I've chosen not to post them because... Well... I don't know. I don't think my words are good enough I guess.

Sorry!

Sorry, if no one minds, I'd kind of like to get at least the second to last word in on this.

Effective immediatly I would like to tender my resignation as Editor for this title. I have not done it justice since I took on this project, and that is not fair to the sight, nor to Charlie.

As of late, I have had much on my plate, and though I am elated to be Editing Titans (a book I have always loved), and don't mind editing Rogue's at all, TQ is a book that I have never totally understood or "got". This is through know one's fault but my own.

What seems to me to be the more then logical choice as Editor of this book, is Brandon. He does seem to understand where the book is coming from and where it is going, much better then myself. Personally, I think it would be a perfect partnership.

Please allow me to reiterate that I have nothing but respect for every person who works on this sight. I am nothing short of amazed at everyone's talents. So this is not a slight on anyone.

Now, with all that being said, I have to admit that this "discussion" has done nothing but dis-heartened me. The way I have viewed it is some bizzare sort of Tony Stark/Steve Rogers thing, which should have went private a while ago (or at least parts of it). However, perhaps that just my narrow view of it. I'm probably wrong. I have been a lot, lately.

Sincerely,
Brian Burchette

Hey gang;

I wanted to chime in here, not about any specific writer at DC2, but about some of the ideas in this thread about how to write.

For those who do not know, I am a full time journalist at a daily newspaper, and my own Batman story will be appearing in DC2 in the not too distant future. (I hope! ;D ) So I have some background when it comes to writing and experimenting with writing styles. In newspapers, out big struggle is to keep readers informed and entertained at the same time - without allowing style to trump substance. Not an easy task some days.

A lot has been made here about the use of tense. Past or Present, which is better? Strictly speaking, neither is. It really depends upon your story and what you want to do with it.

I think past tense is EASIER in terms of organizing a story. Mickey Spillane, for instance, is one of my favorite writers and almost exclusively wrote in the past tense, and was at the same time able to keep a sense of immediacy in the story. The western literary tradition starts with past tense writing with Homer - who frankly wrote the best two books of all time if you ask me.

Anyway, other writers like John Kennedy Toole, who wrote the Pulitzer prize winning novel "A Confederacy of Dunces" (which you should read if you have not) is all in the present tense. The challenge, I think with present tense, can be that you have to keep in mind that your reader will only know what is happening "now" and you have to watch a tendency to drift into past tense.

That said, "tense" is not the only issue here. Point of view also matters. 3rd person or 1st? Who is telling the story?

My point is that there is effectively a whole tool box from which to write. And if I have learned anything it is that there are NO RULES. Not really. yes yes, there are grammar rules and English teachers who never made it as writers will bog you down with so many rules that you'd never have any fun writing. The rules of grammar and such ARE important - if only so that you can learn how and when to break them. And I think a place like DC2 is an excellent place to learn to do that.

Is the Question a "prefect" book? No, but then I don't know any that are, including anything I write. But what I do like about it is that is shows a willingness to experiment with style. And I think that is the most important thing. This story is trying to work from several points of view at once. That is not the easiest thing to try, but I give the author massive points for doing it. The easiest thing to do is write a past tense, 3rd person, story and leave it at that. If I was the book's editor I would make some suggestions based on what I think works, but the bottom line here is we have a writer trying to do something out of the box. And doing that is how you learn to be a better writer.

Ultimately, fan fiction can be very, very bad. I used to belong to a fan fiction site where the writing was so constipated and the willingness to experiment or accept new ideas was not only frowned upon, but actively discouraged. Happily, I do not see that at DC2, and the variety of storytelling styles here is very encouraging.

I think when it comes to critiquing another writer's story its important to keep in mind that your work can be open to similar criticism.

Anyway, a pretty random post I guess, but that's what I wanted to say for now.

Grant.

That's not going to be an easy job!!