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Post by HoM on Aug 7, 2007 14:05:01 GMT -5
I wasn’t going to comment publicly, because I felt a bit questionable doing so, but Dave was bugging me to do it so he could shoot down my reservations, so here I am. I’ve got to preface this by saying Dave and Brian are two of the most talented writers I’ve ever known, and I’m not just saying that with fan fiction as a backdrop, I’m saying that as universally, these two are true talents. I love ‘em like brothers, and they’ve shown me nothing but kindness since I’ve met them. Well. Brian has. Dave can be a bit of an arse every now and then  OH GOD PUT THE KNIFE DOWN! I didn't like it as much as I thought I should. There were moments I really disliked, like the flippant dispatching of Aquaman's hand (which might not be flippant, it could infact tie into the new run of Aquaman, written by Crow, but in the context of the story, I felt it was an afterthought), Chloe's pregnancy (which slightly peeves me somewhat, but I’m sure that I won't have to follow up on it, considering I'm the writer of Green Lantern...) and it just felt empty... Like a Bruckheimer film? Big awesome fights with very little story in-between. Lex Luthor was cool, the Riddler was kind of... I don't know. Clever, but I kind of clicked onto autopilot by then. And yeah, I’m a hypocrite because sometimes this happens in my stories, though I try not to allow it :/ And now I feel harsh saying all that, I mean, I couldn't have done better, and the moment when the thousands of Starro's appear in another galaxy... That was nice. And the Sinestro/'Sentinel" battle was nice, but it seemed... I don't know! I just didn't like it. I was turned off by the hand removing and the pregnancy. I don’t know what I was expecting, but this seemed to only half deliver to it, and that’s maybe because I always saw the series finishing in a different away (I mean, I was there for the twenty nine plot revisions the event went through) because maybe I saw it as a different event… A different story… And besides, just because I don’t like bits of it doesn’t mean that others won’t. I can see from everyone else’s feedback that they loved it, and I can see glimpses of why, but for me, it didn’t work as a whole… Gah, I feel like I’m rambling. And how come like... Captain Marvel and Superman were captured easily, with their ruddy super reflexes? And Batman was like "nanananananananana can't catch me! can't catch me! can't catch me!"(and yeah, that was the 60s Batman theme but with Batman replaced with "can't catch me")... I don't know. But Lex Luthor... I want to know what's going on there now. Is he a villain publicly? Or not? I felt like as this was what two years has been working toward, and there were so many unanswered questions, and I would have preferred a lot more closer than what we were given. I understand that Checkmate (which looks like an awesome series) will pick up on a lot of the events of this book, but I wanted something more. Yes, Starro was defeated (and I did enjoy, thinking about it, the idea of thousands of multicoloured ‘Lovecraftian’ starfish threatening the world, and I put Lovecraftian in inverted commas because, well, I don’t think he ever used starfish as part of his catalogue of Old Gods.) but Lex Luthor is now missing, and he screwed with the JL, but did he do it so he was caught on camera? Has he been exposed? I expect that to run in to Action Comics… But I don’t know. I wanted more closure. Everything is back to normal, apart from some missing limbs on one guy’s front. |
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Post by David on Aug 7, 2007 15:32:02 GMT -5
I wasn’t going to comment publicly, because I felt a bit questionable doing so, but Dave was bugging me to do it so he could shoot down my reservations, so here I am. We all do this for the gift of feedback--- positive or negative, we all owe it to each other, especially those of us on staff. Brian's just too nice to tell you when you're being a git. I have no such qualms. I respect your opnion, but I would like to address your perceptions of those plot-points. The fact of the matter is, after all but instigating the whole thing, Aquaman had nothing to do for the latter part of the event--- and absolutely no role planned in the annual. Brian and I (hereafter referred to only in the first person singular to simplfy matters) felt that was an injustice, and that we needed to show just how neat a character is the former chair of the League. Faced with the problem of the Society getting into the Hall and the need to get Aquaman back into the thick of it, the two imperatives dovetailed nicely. And this being the annual, the (hopefully) big kicka$$ finale and culmination to the last year's worth of storylines, we wanted to push the envelope on everything. I love Aquaman. I think that comes out eveytime I've written him (and after Brandon, I've written him more often than anyone else here), and I think I get him, and what he's about. He's got some crazy, psychopathic enemies (like Black Manta), and their enmity has consequences. That being said--- this honestly does not have to evolve into the hook-hand of the DCU version. It has already been established (by Alex Ross, no less in his magnificent Justice Maxi-series) that, like certain other aquatic creatures, Aquaman can regrow flesh/limbs/organs... Of course, if the new writer prefers to stay with the hook-hand, he's always welcome to go there as well. This was a Crisis, Charlie, and like the solicits promised, things are not the same for some folks at the end. Which includes Chloe! Another big surprise we concocted for those who are paying attention. Not sure why this has you so up in arms--- there's so much for a good writer to work with there! Personally, I think Hal's world could use a little shake-up--- and let's be honest: doesn't this make sense for the DC2's biggest Casanova? And yet, there are so many easy outs on this one, as well. The Green Lantern writer(s) can take this fascinating new wrinkle to the GL mythos (as Chloe is herself) and run with it, or write it out fairly easily (but thereby giving up so interesting story possibilities. Clark and Lois got married! Why can't Hal have a bab's mama?)... As for the Bruckheimer analogy, I'm not sure I follow you... We had two huge set-pieces in this issue, but for the most part, the prose focused on character, dialogue and plot... Sure, stuff blew up, but this is the big finish to a big story! You should have been expecting nothing less! It was nice but you didn't like it? Could you possibly have wanted more action in those seqiences, something which you criticised in the Bruckheimer comment above...? Clearly! But different strokes, etc... Sorry for not living up to your expectation of how this story should have concluded. Honestly. It was our intention for there to be something for eveyone in this. Incidentally, how did you see this story go? Where did we veer off? Didn't work how, exactly? Was there a hole in the plot somewhere? Did protagonists act out of character? I myself came to this project rather late, and so was not there for the 29 revisions, but as far as I know we were working directly from the outline Brian wrote and posted in the Writer's Workshop, right? Nothing easy about it. Superman rampaged uncontained until Wonder Woman came after him with Kryptonite. And if super-reflexes are a power that Captain Marvel has, that's a new one on me! Besides, we didn't want to focus on the fights, per se, so much as the character interactions during them. Which is why I am puzzled by your Bruckheimer comment, which you seem to contradict here... Well, that makes two of us! I have no idea what you mean here. But if you're talking about Batman versus Luthor, than you have a point. No doubt Luthor doesn't stand a chance against Batman, but Batman is smart enough to know that Luthor is smart enough to know it as well, and Batman wouldn't just leap before he looked. He taunted him, tried to shake him up, expose his defenses, make him get sloppy. Isn't that how Batman operates? That's for someone else to determine--- but it was no surprise to any DC2 writer that Lex was behind the Society, and that he was going to lose. Fallout from that should have been a consideration of the event planning. With all of Lex's contacts in the government and elsewhere, I'm sure he has the resources to sweep this under the rug. However, I for one am ready for mad scientist, super-evil Lex! Let's get him back to his roots, out of the suit, and getting his own hands dirty again! Well, the annual was already three times the size of a regular issue...!  But what questions went unanswered? There was one dangling plot-point that I know of, but we were asked to let it dangle... No. And who says he's missing. The epilogue has him rallying the Society... I hope it does! But did we really need to resolve Luthor's fate in this annual? Was that what this story was about? And Starman being dead. And the JSA reforming. And Red Tornado dying. And Checkmate spinning out of it. And Hal having to deal with the consequences of his indiscretions like a big boy. And Max Lord being in a coma. And the League membership shaking up. Other than that, everything is normal. Oh, and League is homeless. And Green Arrow and Black Canary seem to be on the outs. And there's a deadly new Secret Society of Super Villains on the loose. And... Thanks for reading, Charlie, and thanks for the feedback!  |
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Post by starlord on Aug 7, 2007 15:47:02 GMT -5
I find this discussion interesting, and all I really want to add is that I have been in close contact with Crow (who will be starting up Aquaman again, soon) and between us, we have come up with a whole different approach to the hand thing. It will be revealed in JL #7, next month. And what may appear to be an easy way out... may end up causing a whole lot of trouble down the road.. |
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Post by Mr Clown on Aug 9, 2007 15:23:23 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with Charlie with quite a bit of this to be honest. I'm a big fan of the other work you two have done, but this one just seemed to fall short at points. The reformation of the JSA at the end of #4 was great, but the scenes they had in the annual were lacking, and when Starman sacrificed himself it just seemed to... fall short. I had to ask myself "Why should I care?" And I'm a fan of Starman... Maybe it's because he hadn't made that great of an impact on the story until then, sure he had made an impact in #4 but that was a team effort on the JSA's part. Maybe if he had done more himself I would have been affected differently from his death, but where it stands is, it just seems like you guys took a minor character in the story and killed him off. The battle between the Society and the group of heroes wasn't bad, but for the most of it I was asking myself "This is the big bad of the DC2 now? Why are they being punked out like this?" I was really unimpressed in particular with the battle between Sinestro and Allan Scott. But over all, the finale wasn't bad. And to be honest I was questioning the timing of the overall crisis itself. I think that a little more planning could have gone into it, and if it hadn't disrupted some of the other arcs more it would have been more enjoyable for me. But that's just my opinion, and I'm willing to bet others will disagree. |
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Post by David on Aug 9, 2007 16:01:06 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with Charlie with quite a bit of this to be honest. I'm a big fan of the other work you two have done, but this one just seemed to fall short at points. The reformation of the JSA at the end of #4 was great, but the scenes they had in the annual were lacking, and when Starman sacrificed himself it just seemed to... fall short. Sorry you felt the JSA stuff was lacking, Mike. As you know, I am a big JSA fan, and if I had my way, I would have written the whole event around them--- but the fact of the matter is, this story was about all the heroes of the DC2, and the Justice League in particular. However--- if you look more closely, I think you will find that of them all, the members of the JSA come off better than just about anybody else. Jay and Alan and Ted all have significant roles to play in the final confrontations, so I'm not sure what you found lacking exactly...? Are you suggesting that we should have written more scenes with the JSA, ot that there was something wrong with the ones we did? But good news! Justice Society of America #1 is coming early in 2008... and they are all throughout that book ;D! I have to take great exception to your perception here. Starman was not disposed of arbitrarily, or even as a minor character. He was a major player in the JSA, and a true hero in his own right, and both Brian and I respected him as such. I resisted the urge to get melodramatic over his demise, and tried to allow the story to show the impact it had (rather than to just tell the reader). What it boils down to is, something had to be done, and Starman was the only man to do it. And he did it without a fuss and beating of the chest, with full knowledge of the consequence. His loss will have ramifications in Justice Society of America #1. Brian and I were very aware of how long the annual was becomming, and how much we were asking of our readers just to get through it all. But we are discovering that--- if nothing else!--- our readers wanted to see more! Good to know for next time Again, I have to take exception to your perception. First, I don't think we have stated anywhere that the Secret Society is the new 'big bad' of the DC2niverse. In fact, I'd be surprised if they don't implode in the first few issues of Checkmate! As for the battle in the Hall, no one was getting punked there, in fact it was a near thing! Power Girl had been overwhelmed, Aquaman was down for the count, Abra Kadabra had taken out Zatanna, Scandal Savage clearly was getting the best of Blue Beetle and Poison Ivy was on a rampage! I will, however, grant you that the battle between Alan Scott and Sinestro was unimpressive. This was actually a set piece that, as writers, we were all looking forward to, but for space considerations (apparently unfounded) were forced to cut short. Someone else will have to answer to the timing question, but I can tell you that is the trickiest part of planning and organizing an event like this--- and a lot of it is at the mercy of the dozen or so writers and artists all working to deadlines (and some missing them). All in all, these crossovers are logistically nightmarish (now imagine what last year's was like, four times as long, with evey title coordinated to fit in at a certain spot)! Thanks for reading, Mike, and for the feedback! |
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Post by starlord on Aug 9, 2007 17:53:35 GMT -5
Just to back up a bit of what David has said (hope he doesn't mind), when it came to Starman, it was not an easy decsion at all, and although I'm admittedly a writer who loves to write the melodramatic stuff, the decsion to have Ted Knight realize what he had to do, and do it with very little grand standing, fuss, or even realization from so many of the heroes (until the very end, after it was over), was, in my opinion, the perfect way for such a solid character like Starman to go out. Ted was very much a quiet member of the JSA, rarely voicing his opinion unless it was something he was very sure of. Instead, he chose to fight with his friends, and do the best that he could for all of humanity. He left the DC2 just as he had been protrayed in both DC and DC2, as a quiet hero who knew what the right thing to do was. On another note (and a teasing one at that), Hey Dave, Have you mentioned your new JSA series to anyone, yet? ;D |
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Post by David on Aug 9, 2007 18:00:39 GMT -5
Hey Dave, Have you mentioned your new JSA series to anyone, yet? ;D What? You mean the Justice Society of America, coming out in early 2008? I think I may have mentioned it. ;D |
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Post by Alex on Aug 9, 2007 20:45:54 GMT -5
Hey Dave, Have you mentioned your new JSA series to anyone, yet? ;D What? You mean the Justice Society of America, coming out in early 2008? I think I may have mentioned it. ;D Thank god, i was totally unaware! |
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Susan Hillwig
Staff 
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
Posts: 1,612
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Post by Susan Hillwig on Aug 9, 2007 22:29:53 GMT -5
Good Lord, I feel like a ran a marathon after reading that issue. Like some others, #4 of "JL vs. America" kind of turned me off, and I was reading this mainly to finish off the whole deal...boy, did I get a wake-up call! I think just about every high point in the story was touched upon in the lettercol here, so let me just say that you guys all did a great job, and once again, your talent makes me feel like I'm nothing but a poseur over on WWQ (hey, David gets plugs in, so why can't I?). Standing ovation for everybody who worked on this, from writers to artists to editors ('cause they need love too!), you'd all deserve raises if we actually got paid around here. PS - How long until Charlie starts writing Jack Knight in his very own Starman title...because we all know he wants to. |
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Post by David on Aug 10, 2007 11:06:02 GMT -5
Good Lord, I feel like a ran a marathon after reading that issue. Brian and I both had people suppling us with styrofoam cups of water while we were writing it! Susie, you are one of the brightest stars in the DC2 firmament, and in no way a poseur! In fact, if I may use my powers of plugging for good this time, people are going to go crazy for your Seven Soldiers of Victory mini, also appearing early in 2008 (coincidentally around the same time as that other book--- what its name?--- Oh! Yeah! Justice Society of America!) The art is absolutely amazing, isn't it? Tupper, babs and Ramon really out-did themselves on this one, and made this a special issue! Brian and Mark should be given the Editors of the Year award for tackling this project (I could only imagine Mark's reaction when Brian emailed him the annual  ) More shall be heard from the sons of Ted Knight in (where else?) Justice Society of America #1 coming early in 2008 (also, btw, in Gotterdammerung)! Thanks for reading, Susie, and for the feedback! |
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Post by starlord on Aug 10, 2007 12:15:57 GMT -5
The only thing I can add to that is I'm sorry you didn't care for the 4th issue of the mini. But glad you enjoyed our annual.
hmmm....
GREEN ARROW #0 COMES OUT IN SEPTEMBER!!!!!!!!!!
wow, that does feel pretty good. ;D
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Susan Hillwig
Staff
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
Posts: 1,612
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Post by Susan Hillwig on Aug 12, 2007 15:56:12 GMT -5
WEIRD WESTERN QUARTERLY #8, coming in October!
SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY #1, coming...eventually!
Yeah, it feels great. Kinda tingly, like one of those massage chairs at the mall. Everybody should try it. ;D
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Post by Romans Empire on Aug 19, 2007 21:53:58 GMT -5
Finally got around to responding to this issue. I know everyone has been waiting on pins and needles for my thoughts so here they are... The cover was epic not only in size but in scope and style. Simply awesome work Adam. The surprise Society pic was truly chilling Anja. I can't wait to see what you do next because we need more more more! I loved the opening of this story not only did it serve as a great re-cap to the event but it also had a very big time summer movie opening! One of my favorite scenes early on was the Faraday Luthor confrontation. Good stuff from two of my least favorite characters. Every battle scene was vivid and intense. Very impressive how you both manged to give a different spin to each scene but never let up on the action. Some of my other favorite scenes were: Where Luthor 'deals' with Riddler. Shocking and unexpected.
Luthor balking at the 'For all Mankind' scene.
Everything involving the Society was bad-ass!
Black Manta cutting off Aquamans hand!
Chloe's 'surprise'!
Power Girl taking on the Society!
Canary battling Shiva until the very end!
Booster and Ivy.
Abra Kadabra and Zatanna.
The sacrifice of Starman.
The final showdown between Batman and Luthor.
Aquaman dealing justice on Black Mantas ass!Except for the opening scene everything else with Lois was annoying. Maybe because I don't like her? The pacing of the issue was amazing. I was surprised at how fast it read given the size. Also it was a nice setup for Checkmate even though I think the series may go off in a different direction then some might expect. But I am sure most everything will be touched upon eventually, if not in Checkmate then elsewhere. I also think this might be a good launch pad for a JSA series if someone was inclined to take off with it. Overall, I thought this was a fitting conclusion to one helluva epic series. I kind of read through Charlie's thoughts and I honestly didn't agree with any of them. I was totally surprised at the negative respones considering how heavly he was involved with this series. But he is entitled to his opinion and him and I rarely agree so I guess it stands to reason that I loved this. I can't give higher praise to Brian and David for all their hard work and effort here. Simple amazing. |
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Post by HoM on Aug 20, 2007 5:47:19 GMT -5
I disagree---! |
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Post by David on Aug 20, 2007 6:13:48 GMT -5
Thanks for reading and leaving feedback, John! Our art team on this issue really did go the extra mile, turning in some personal bests, no doubt! Your thoughtful feedback is truly appreciated. You've touched on the major beats of what Brian and I were trying to do here, and seem to understand where we were coming from. This story wasn't perfect, but both Brian and I are very proud of it, and I think it stands as a good, fitting finale for this event. Charlie's "criticisms" not withstanding, of course, . Looking forward to seeing how the future of Checkmate plays out in it's own title! Oh, and as for a springboard to a new JSA series, perhaps I haven't mentioned it yet, but look for Justice Society of America #1 early in 2008! ;D |
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Post by l1701e on Aug 20, 2007 19:51:07 GMT -5
Starman is dead. Brian really wanted to do a scene with Jay or Alan finding the body, to give the reader some indication this was a "real" death, and not one he could come back from, but the fact is I could not imagine a way his body could have survived the flash he generated. Jay finding the mangled cosmic rod was the next best thing (at least on an emotional level). Ted Knight was a hero. He gave his life, willingly and knowingly, to save the world. He's not coming back. ;D |
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Post by David on Aug 20, 2007 20:25:32 GMT -5
Starman is dead. Brian really wanted to do a scene with Jay or Alan finding the body, to give the reader some indication this was a "real" death, and not one he could come back from, but the fact is I could not imagine a way his body could have survived the flash he generated. Jay finding the mangled cosmic rod was the next best thing (at least on an emotional level). Ted Knight was a hero. He gave his life, willingly and knowingly, to save the world. He's not coming back. ;D Not a bad use of the afterlife... |
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Post by l1701e on Aug 20, 2007 20:52:15 GMT -5
Somebody should draw that. Can we have somebody draw that?! I would love to see someone draw the ghost of the original Starman giving Batman the bunny ears! ;D ...Please? Ted: Heh heh... (Starts to give Power Girl the bunny ears)
PG: (Revealing she's wearing a Proton Pack) Try it and get zapped, Starman.
Ted: ...Where'd you get that?
PG: *smirks* From L17's imagination. He's got a thing for the 80s.
Ted: D'oh! |
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Post by starlord on Aug 21, 2007 20:50:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the wonderful comments John. Everything David replied goes for me as well. I am proud of what we did... all of us! Oh and don't forget that the new book JSA errr... I mean Green Arrow.  Now he's got me doing it. |
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Post by lissilambe on Aug 21, 2007 21:03:57 GMT -5
I do know how Charlie feels and where he's coming from. Granted, no one's been bugging me for my opinions, but I feel bad coming in with what I'll say after the wonderfully glowing comments from David. Still and all...I suppose I should say something. I guess.  I feel much the same way that Charlie did, I think. I know I felt less than awe-filled at the unfolding of this last part. It read like a summer blockbuster movie. That in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. The let down comes in that it was reminiscent of one of those summer blockbusters that pretty much paints by numbers, hits all the set pieces but lacks feeling. I didn't feel the emotion in the various scenes, and there were a couple of pieces here and there that flatout irritated me (on a purely subjective level of course). And I disagree, I don't feel much changed. Ther was no great alteration of the status quo, the things quoted (return of the JSA, etc) aren't things that really alter a super-hero environment to a significant degree. They're happenings, and they're good things, but i don't see them as worthy of "nothing will be the same again". Then again, that's a good thing in my book. I hate the current trend of comic universes feeling like every issue needs to forever change everything you know about the title. It was okay. The writing was technically proficient, and you covered all the bases of the plotline. But it didn't achieve, for me anyway, the depths of emotion and the heights of glory that you'd hoped. Sorry. Believe me when I say, I feel bad saying that. But I'm not going to heap false praise either. Take care Don |
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Post by David on Aug 22, 2007 11:41:43 GMT -5
No need to feel bad, Don. Honesty is appreciated--- and just the fact that you cared enough to read it and leave feedback is reward enough for these two writers! I think I addressed the "summer blockbuster" charge before, so all I want to say is that, while this finale was always conceived as a big-bang, action-packed conclusion, if you take a look at the big action scenes again, you'll see they're really more about character and plot. Brian and I wrote this with "feeling" so I'm not sure why this didn't come across very well--- I'm satisfied that it does (but then, I'm prejudiced). Our intention was to tell a fun story, tie-up the event and all the plotlines in under 50 pages (except the one we were asked to dangle), to throw out there some interesting (although, I think"controversial" might be a better term) consequences for the survivors, and to respect the characters and what came before. Not an easy task, and I humbly submit we suceeded, at least to a certain degree, and I remain proud of the work (though I respect the right of anyone to disagree). Now if you'll excuse me, Bruckheimer is on the phone; that guys hasn't stopped calling for a week! |
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Post by starlord on Aug 22, 2007 17:17:49 GMT -5
I also want to thank everyone for their honest opinion on this. For my part, I was trying for an all out summer blast, but to maintain the integrity of the characters themselves. I'm partial to liking this as well, but perhaps just getting to work so closley with Dave makes me not see the faults as much. It's possible. But I thank everyone for reading and sticking with us through the entire event. Wait a minute! Bruckheimer is calling you?! All I'm getting are phone calls from Woody Allen. I'm telling ya, it ain't fair!  |
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Post by oblique on Feb 4, 2017 12:25:26 GMT -5
Wow! Two years! Congratulations, almost ten years later, to all of the writers on this site for creating another massive crossover. I'm not sure if this writing these letters is entirely pointless after so much time, but as an aspiring writer myself, I think anyone would appreciate a new fan picking up their work no matter how many years have pasted. At least I think this can't hurt. Like a new reader flipping through a decade of back issues after discovering a new character I've had a great time reading tons of different characters by different writers on this site. Obviously I came to a point where, with great fanfare, multiple titles announced they were colliding in a second epic anniversary event - so here I am! (This letter covers all of the event series.)
I've always enjoyed stories that pit our mighty heroes against shadowy conspiracies and corrupt government officials, so the beginning of this story worked out well in that respect. This format allowed the writers to dig into the politics and motivations for different characters. I particularly enjoyed President Lord and his hapless Vice-President, thrust into the driver's seat! Their response to the League seemed plausible (no matter how frustrated) as did the League's protectiveness. I loved the different battles among the heroes (both verbal and physical) over what to do--who to believe--who to trust. The Justice League Vs. Suicide Squad and the Teen Titans went down just like it should, and the fights were a lot of fun.
Of course, I was glad when Starro (or "The Star Conqueror) turned out to be manipulated countless hapless pawns from behind the scene. I have to mention that Luthor's big move was unexpected. As trite as this might sound, it felt like the second half of this event was trying to do too much. I enjoyed the tighter focus on the League in the first half. I also loved Lois Lane's role as an intrepid journalist, Chloe Sullivan, and Barbara Gordon's ethical dilemma in particular.
There were a lot of balls in the air in the second part and not every scene received enough attention, in my humble opinion. The reappearance of the Justice Society to save the day would not have been my preferred solution--it felt like the Justice League was getting short thrift in their own title (and event). Superman in particular felt like he disappeared for a few issues, even as an obstacle to other heroes. Batman received due attention in a great scene in the Hall of Justice and, don't get me wrong, there were lots of great moments, battles, and an epic sacrifice to save the day. It was a big finish for a big event with great characters, and I look forward to seeing more of the League in the future.
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Post by HoM on Feb 7, 2017 18:08:58 GMT -5
Wow! Two years! Congratulations, almost ten years later, to all of the writers on this site for creating another massive crossover. I'm not sure if this writing these letters is entirely pointless after so much time, but as an aspiring writer myself, I think anyone would appreciate a new fan picking up their work no matter how many years have pasted. At least I think this can't hurt. Like a new reader flipping through a decade of back issues after discovering a new character I've had a great time reading tons of different characters by different writers on this site. Obviously I came to a point where, with great fanfare, multiple titles announced they were colliding in a second epic anniversary event - so here I am! (This letter covers all of the event series.) Thanks for commenting, O. I know I appreciate receiving feedback. I've said it so many times before that I must come across as a broken record, but as much as I love writing these stories, sometimes it feels like I'm just chucking them into a void. Like I'm writing them for the sake of writing them, rather than for an audience. I have to admit, I'm still looking forward to you hitting the ongoing books that are still coming out on the site! I've always enjoyed stories that pit our mighty heroes against shadowy conspiracies and corrupt government officials, so the beginning of this story worked out well in that respect. This format allowed the writers to dig into the politics and motivations for different characters. I particularly enjoyed President Lord and his hapless Vice-President, thrust into the driver's seat! Their response to the League seemed plausible (no matter how frustrated) as did the League's protectiveness. I loved the different battles among the heroes (both verbal and physical) over what to do--who to believe--who to trust. The Justice League Vs. Suicide Squad and the Teen Titans went down just like it should, and the fights were a lot of fun. was an interesting event, and one that we started planning as soon as, if not before, The Apokolips Imperative wrapped. The idea was to do yearly events, "Issue Ten Events", e.g. IXE, IXXE, etc, but I think this was the last one we did as a site because we got massive after this. We had events, sure; minis like Zero Hour (I freely admit that was a letdown), Nemesis (that one was purely mine and one I'm massively proud of!), Gotham: City of the Dead (Batman vs Zombies, c'mon, how could that not be awesome) but nothing that ever overtook the site like the first two years did. I wrote the first issue of the dedicated mini, and I remember one piece of criticism I received over everything else-- I was questioned on J'onn J'onzz referring to Diana as "My Queen"-- and unfortunately that was the only thing that really stuck. Because I was probably 16-17 and these things really mattered to me. That, and the imagery that came out around the event itself. Adam Tupper's Justice League cover from the prelude issue, the Wanted poster featuring Aquaman... that was amazing. Starros over Washington, all our heroes clashing... Adam delivered some stellar work. And everyone else was firing on all cylinders during the run itself. The first half was pure political intrigue, all conspiratorial and tense. Like Starcrossed, the Justice League animated movie, then the second half went off the rails somewhat... slugfests over the more cerebral scenarios that came first. Of course, I was glad when Starro (or "The Star Conqueror) turned out to be manipulated countless hapless pawns from behind the scene. I have to mention that Luthor's big move was unexpected. As trite as this might sound, it felt like the second half of this event was trying to do too much. I enjoyed the tighter focus on the League in the first half. I also loved Lois Lane's role as an intrepid journalist, Chloe Sullivan, and Barbara Gordon's ethical dilemma in particular. I loved Grant Morrison's JLA run, but I never did figure out the difference between Starro and the Star Conqueror. One of my favourite images to come out of Justice League Vs America was that far off galaxy with hundreds of migrating Starros journeying out from the cosmic black, and I think it really ingrained itself on my psyche. It's like how WWE are more interested in creating moments in their matches rather than logical storytelling... the moments stick with you, but everything else melts away. And yes, that was a wrestling reference. There were a lot of balls in the air in the second part and not every scene received enough attention, in my humble opinion. The reappearance of the Justice Society to save the day would not have been my preferred solution--it felt like the Justice League was getting short thrift in their own title (and event). Superman in particular felt like he disappeared for a few issues, even as an obstacle to other heroes. Batman received due attention in a great scene in the Hall of Justice and, don't get me wrong, there were lots of great moments, battles, and an epic sacrifice to save the day. It was a big finish for a big event with great characters, and I look forward to seeing more of the League in the future. I think it's quite obvious that everyone loves Batman, and unfortunately stories tend to lean in his favaour because of that. I liked elements that came out of this book... the sad death of Starman I, the surrender of Barry Allen to the authorities... Sinestro's appearance is one that still reverberates in the Green Lantern Corps ongoing... and also the fact that our Max Lord is still in that coma somewhere, not yet having awoken to cause additional trouble for our heroes. Is he just a used car salesman in over his head like he was back in the Justice League International days, or is he the man he became post- Countdown to Infinite Crisis...? Who knows... Thanks again for reading! |
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Post by HoM on Feb 7, 2017 18:10:23 GMT -5
I wasn’t going to comment publicly, because I felt a bit questionable doing so, but Dave was bugging me to do it so he could shoot down my reservations, so here I am. I’ve got to preface this by saying Dave and Brian are two of the most talented writers I’ve ever known, and I’m not just saying that with fan fiction as a backdrop, I’m saying that as universally, these two are true talents. I love ‘em like brothers, and they’ve shown me nothing but kindness since I’ve met them. Well. Brian has. Dave can be a bit of an arse every now and then OH GOD PUT THE KNIFE DOWN! I didn't like it as much as I thought I should. There were moments I really disliked, like the flippant dispatching of Aquaman's hand (which might not be flippant, it could infact tie into the new run of Aquaman, written by Crow, but in the context of the story, I felt it was an afterthought), Chloe's pregnancy (which slightly peeves me somewhat, but I’m sure that I won't have to follow up on it, considering I'm the writer of Green Lantern...) and it just felt empty... Like a Bruckheimer film? Big awesome fights with very little story in-between. Lex Luthor was cool, the Riddler was kind of... I don't know. Clever, but I kind of clicked onto autopilot by then. And yeah, I’m a hypocrite because sometimes this happens in my stories, though I try not to allow it :/ And now I feel harsh saying all that, I mean, I couldn't have done better, and the moment when the thousands of Starro's appear in another galaxy... That was nice. And the Sinestro/'Sentinel" battle was nice, but it seemed... I don't know! I just didn't like it. I was turned off by the hand removing and the pregnancy. I don’t know what I was expecting, but this seemed to only half deliver to it, and that’s maybe because I always saw the series finishing in a different away (I mean, I was there for the twenty nine plot revisions the event went through) because maybe I saw it as a different event… A different story… And besides, just because I don’t like bits of it doesn’t mean that others won’t. I can see from everyone else’s feedback that they loved it, and I can see glimpses of why, but for me, it didn’t work as a whole… Gah, I feel like I’m rambling. And how come like... Captain Marvel and Superman were captured easily, with their ruddy super reflexes? And Batman was like "nanananananananana can't catch me! can't catch me! can't catch me!"(and yeah, that was the 60s Batman theme but with Batman replaced with "can't catch me")... I don't know. But Lex Luthor... I want to know what's going on there now. Is he a villain publicly? Or not? I felt like as this was what two years has been working toward, and there were so many unanswered questions, and I would have preferred a lot more closer than what we were given. I understand that Checkmate (which looks like an awesome series) will pick up on a lot of the events of this book, but I wanted something more. Yes, Starro was defeated (and I did enjoy, thinking about it, the idea of thousands of multicoloured ‘Lovecraftian’ starfish threatening the world, and I put Lovecraftian in inverted commas because, well, I don’t think he ever used starfish as part of his catalogue of Old Gods.) but Lex Luthor is now missing, and he screwed with the JL, but did he do it so he was caught on camera? Has he been exposed? I expect that to run in to Action Comics… But I don’t know. I wanted more closure. Everything is back to normal, apart from some missing limbs on one guy’s front. At least I became more eloquent with age. |
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Post by oblique on Feb 8, 2017 17:57:32 GMT -5
Thanks for commenting, O. I know I appreciate receiving feedback. I've said it so many times before that I must come across as a broken record, but as much as I love writing these stories, sometimes it feels like I'm just chucking them into a void. Like I'm writing them for the sake of writing them, rather than for an audience. I have to admit, I'm still looking forward to you hitting the ongoing books that are still coming out on the site! I am excited to keep reading through Justice League now that I'm done with this crossover. (I have to say, my interest in writing for the site has shifted my reading somewhat towards the Bat-Books as I try and digest the canon.) Having done some fanfiction of my own in the past, it can definitely feel like yelling into the wind at times...so I do my best to comment and show my appreciation on what I'm reading whenever I have a spare hour or two! Save |
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OH GOD PUT THE KNIFE DOWN!
But what questions went unanswered? There was one dangling plot-point that I know of, but we were asked to let it dangle...
)
Now he's got me doing it. 
