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Post by David on Aug 19, 2015 19:47:55 GMT -5
And so Ten Years Later begins!
I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks of the "last" DC2 Aquaman story.
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Post by HoM on Aug 20, 2015 4:58:20 GMT -5
Blimey. I felt like this story was a very tight, muscular first salvo for Ten Years Later, lots of nods and winks to previous tales in DC2's Aquaman canon, and a zippy read at that. Every element of the wider Aquaman mythos was addressed, his time on the surface, his time as king, and his time as a superhero, and there was a level of reverence for the character that I really enjoyed. I'm not going to touch on many plot details in my feedback, just because it's only been up for eight hours by the time I post this!
Brandon, that cover is beautiful, soft lines shaping the brooding form of Aquaman at his lowest, both figuratively and literally. Whenever you draw the character we are lucky. Can't wait to see more of your work over the coming months! Not only that, but your influence on the plot was clear, the Lovecraftian elements, the characters used, your fingerprints are all over it. That's fantastic.
We all know that Arthur gets a bad rap, even now, no matter how many Aquaman Reclamation Projects DC attempts, but I don't think we ever had that problem on the DC2. This guy is a man of two worlds, feet set heavily in both, and his love of life, his family, his kingdom, it all shows. He was never a joke, we never alluded to the joke, and I think he was stronger for it.
I had to do a double take when the old man's identity was revealed, but as soon as you name-dropped him I remembered those stories from the early days of the site, the fantastic creative team of Brandon and Brandon delivering really cool, stripped down and accessible stories of a character that, at the time, had just gone through. hell in the DCU proper... death at the hands of an Imperiex probe, transformed into a water elemental, sinking Atlantis in the past, returning and being granted a water hand... those were MY Aquaman stories, growing up. Those and, of course, Brandon's, who presented a very pure version of the character, worthy of any "Year One" / "Earth One" reboot.
David, not only do you honour the character here, but you also honour his time in the DC2. That's damn cool. You wrote a very nice 'launchpad' for Aquaman into the Ten Years Later mega-event that is Omega Crisis, doing something that I really appreciate-- you let everyone who mattered live. I worry that people are taking this opportunity to write final stories that are finite, very seriously the last stories of characters we love... but I don't want to see Aquaman die. I don't want to see anyone keel over at that last moment, I want adventure, I want hope, I want... never the end. Because it's not! Even when stories aren't being written, these characters are still living, still loving, and Ten Years Later is all about that. Even when we're not "here", writing the characters, they're still going to be there, either waiting for us to return, or fighting the good fight. Some of us are showing glimpses of those adventures had over the ten years, some of us are jumping to the final year of the jump, like you have here, but no matter what, these characters feel lived in, they feel like they're bearing a weight of that time, and the adventures they have-- if indicated by your story here-- are worth something.
I have some questions (of course) regarding things that I felt were overlooked in the pumping, visceral approach to storytelling you used here (no wasted motion, no wasted words, other than Arthur's Shakespearean turn early on!), such as what happened to his cursed hand (did he cut it off, or just slit his wrist?). Maybe that was just a side effect of my reading it very quickly (I loved how efficient it was in telling the story, without feeling shallow in detail) but I'm just sitting, letting it wash over me right now as I write this feedback. Not a criticism, just something I felt could have been nodded toward and could be considered moving forward in your upcoming stories.
Anyway-- a great opening salvo to Ten Years Later, but also a very ominous peak behind the curtain at your overarching story threads, the Great Disaster... fantastic stuff, David and Brandon!
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Post by David on Aug 21, 2015 20:24:03 GMT -5
Thanks for reading this so quickly, Charlie. Your enthusiasm for this event is palpable and contagious. Blimey. I felt like this story was a very tight, muscular first salvo for Ten Years Later, lots of nods and winks to previous tales in DC2's Aquaman canon, and a zippy read at that. Every element of the wider Aquaman mythos was addressed, his time on the surface, his time as king, and his time as a superhero, and there was a level of reverence for the character that I really enjoyed. I'm not going to touch on many plot details in my feedback, just because it's only been up for eight hours by the time I post this! One of the things I want to do with my 10YL stories is to honor what we've done in the last ten years, acknowledge this writer's run, and that writer's run, and to give the character the conclusion I think they've earned or can be extrapolated by their dramatic trajectory. That is not to say there can't be surprises (and I hope there was more than a few new elements in "Darkest Depths"), but just as no Batman story can come to an end until there is a reckoning with the Joker, Aquaman has to have a resolution with his almost Shakespearean destiny. That you found my nearly 10,000 word story "zippy" is a relief. I'm glad it read like that, because I was afraid I'd have to break it into two issues (and then beg a second cover from Brandon at last minute). Fortunately, I was able to do some drastic cuts (mostly to do with the larger Great Disaster subplot), and stay focused at Aquaman and his character arc. Too right! Brandon actually did this pic ages ago for a proposed run he and I had planned a while back. Unfortunately that never materialized, but that image was far too good not to be used, and as I began thinking about my 10YL stuff, I realized I needed a backstory to introduce certain concepts, and to my surprise, I found I can meld them with the early work Brandon had already done with Aquaman (which I was a huge fan of). Brandon's stamp is all over this story, and the entire tone of the issue is set by that cover! Yep! My first Mego action figure was Aquaman. That whole "all he's good for is to talk to fishes" is a lame, played-out joke. Nobody says that crap about Namor! But good observation, Charlie. DC2 has always done right by the Sea King. That "old man" needed to make an appearance, and little did I know just how integral he'd be to the the beginning and end of Aquaman's overall story. Weird how that particular callback worked out, but it's a great example of how well Brandon's concepts meshed with the larger story of "Darkest Depths." Well said, Charlie. Yes, 10YL isn't about killing off characters, but giving them a send-off, or simply completing the stories of the characters, as we see them. Which is not to say that death couldn't be a part of that story--- death is a part of every story, like it or not, but it should serve the plot or the character(s) in some way. That being said, the only "for sure" death in this issue was that old man in the beginning--- there is a definite backdoor return written in for those two characters who died at the end, should either be required for Omega Crisis. Ha! Well, I wanted to establish the whole Shakespearean tragedy of Arthur's situation, and what better way than to... have him... quote Hamlet...? (Did you not mind the old man quoting Melville?) He slit his wrist (he did not cut it off). The diseased hand was a symbol of the guilt and sins of Aquaman (and his royal line, really), and a physical manifestation of the curse on Atlantis. Aquaman's actions at the end, and the strength and sacrifice it implied, served to purify him, expelling the influence of the dark power haunting Atlantis, and the healing of the hand was an outward sign of that. Maybe a bit heavy-handed, but I'm not writing Moby Dick, after all. Admittedly, healing his hand was a bit of jiggery-pokery, but when you're dealing with sorcery, and curses, and superpowers, is it really that much of a stretch? The Great Disaster is coming! Thanks for the feedback, Charlie! Let 10YL begin! |
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Post by UltimateDC on Aug 25, 2015 4:06:34 GMT -5
Well that was a mighty epic story, both an intimate character focus on the life of Arthur Curry and a grand-scale, world-saving adventure for the old king and the prodigal son. I like the influences here; I'm getting vibes from Lovecraft, Game of Thrones, Moby Dick, Ozymandias, and a few more. Including all of Aquaman's archenemies was a nice touch and they both helped the story. My only complaint (besides a few grammatical errors here and there) is the names. This may just be a personal pet peeve, but I'm less interested in the complexities of fictional mythology when the names of important people and places look like someone pulled random letters out of a Scrabble set and put them together. That, plus I would've liked to see more of Thomas and Krell's time together, but I suppose we've got to get to the main attraction fairly quickly in a one-shot.
All in all, a really strong, grand story and a great way to kick off the 10YL in earnest. Nice work.
-UDC
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Post by David on Aug 25, 2015 18:45:52 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to read this, UDC! Well that was a mighty epic story, both an intimate character focus on the life of Arthur Curry and a grand-scale, world-saving adventure for the old king and the prodigal son. I wanted Aquaman to go out with a meaningful adventure that was true to how we've always presented him, calling back to Brandon's opening run and mindful of the stuff Pat did thereafter. It's no secret I always wanted onto that title, so I felt that it was an honor and a responsibility to tell his last story. All writers and works I've enjoyed (except Moby Dick--- screw that goddamn book; it nearly killed me); I would add to that list Peter David, Shakespeare, Paul Kupperberg, Mike Grell, and Brandon Herren. I think Aquaman lends itself to those kinds of stories; it's all there in the backstory--- but you'd better not lose the character for all the epicness (something Pat understood and handled very well in his run) Three! Don't forget his original DC2 enemy, Krell! But, yes, you can't finish Aquaman's story withhout reckoning with Ocean Master. And Black Manta is just too nasty and evil and threatening not to be in on the end. Ha! Fair enough. The names I used I drew from Aquaman's and/or Atlantis' history from the DCU (with the exception of Xthulu, but he has a pedigree established in Aquaman #0 from ten years ago). What names are you referring to? Yep. But you bring up an a good point. I'm a firm believer that a fan fic is pressing it's luck at 10,000 pages, so I worked hard to keep this a manageable one-and-done issue, and still give it the epic feel the character deserved for a send-off. In so doing, I killed a lot of my darlings, including a good-sized chunk of "complex fictional mythology with randomly-lettered names", but also lost was a flashback scene between Krell and Thomas. I felt everything I needed was elsewhere in the book, and as the relationship between Thomas and Krell was not nearly as important as the relationship between Thomas and his father, I decided to devote the page-space to the latter pair. Thanks, sir! Great feedback. It means a lot that folks are devoting time to supporting this final big push of the DC2, and I really appreciate it. You should even be writing a 10YL book, yourself! Not sure how we missed you in the recruitment drive, but let me know if you want onboard. |
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Post by UltimateDC on Aug 25, 2015 19:53:03 GMT -5
Three! Don't forget his original DC2 enemy, Krell! I was wondering who he was. I never got around to reading a lot of the early DC2 stuff, but that's what the backlogs are for, ennit? Chronicles of Choloh, Plains of Thamuz, Xaos, Vales of Cykroth. I think it irks me more with the names of places rather than people for whatever reason. One of my favorite things about fantasy stories like Game of Thrones and Saga are that the locales all have familiar-sounding names (e.g. Winterfell, Castle Black, Landfall, Wreath, etc.) I'm big on names. Don't know why. Honestly, seeing all the ideas that are going into 10YL got the creative juices flowing in me and prompted to pitch and write the new ongoing SECRET SIX (available to read now). I've also thought about doing some sort of Elseworlds story, but that would require me to come up with an idea that is far enough removed from the mainstream to warrant being an Elseworld, and that's easier said than done. Also, y'know, time and energy and whatnot. -UDC |
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Post by Brandon on Aug 26, 2015 14:09:31 GMT -5
What can I say to do this justice?
It's a fantastically fun and cool read, and a perfect ending to the stories started so many short years ago. I am honored and thrilled that you picked up the reins on this to steer the tale home, Dave. Your Hawkman stories were precisely what brought me to the DC2 to begin with. I'd never really delved into fan fiction much before that, but I knew instantly that the stories you were presenting were of a different caliber. These weren't simply musings of an enthusiastic fan, but rather genuinely wonderful tales that were intelligently crafted and full of passion in most every detail. You have always been the utmost pro in the years that followed. Always a joy to collaborate with, and willing to take the time to give feedback on even the craziest half-baked ideas. You are a class act and have been a stalwart creative companion beyond what began here on this site. I can't thank you enough for being brave and bold enough to get this site going to begin with. I know it took a lot of your free time, but so many have benefited from your initial and continuing efforts. Careers have been launched, friendships have been made, and some damn fine stories and art have been created.
Oh yeah. The story at hand! Again, what can I say? I think it was perfect, and I've enjoyed very few readings as much as this one. Thank you, my friend.
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Post by David on Aug 26, 2015 18:55:47 GMT -5
Three! Don't forget his original DC2 enemy, Krell! I was wondering who he was. I never got around to reading a lot of the early DC2 stuff, but that's what the backlogs are for, ennit? Exactly, yes! Some of our best work was in the first year, leading up to the "Apokolips Imperative" (not to mention, a whole lot of important continuity established. Definitely worth digging into some of those backissues. Then we are kindred spirits, because I'm a names guy, too! As a kid, reading the strange words in Tolkien made me want to study languages, a passion that never faded, and led me to pursue degrees in Latin and Ancient Greek (perfectly preparing me for the workforce, may I just say) (J/K, obviously). We may be on different ends of the spectrum when it comes to this particular aesthetic, but that's what makes the world go 'round. For the record, Choloh and Thamuz are taken directly from Arion, Lord of Atlantis; Xaos and Cykroth are from Mike Grell's Warlord (I'm 90% sure, but there's a slim chance I found them in Peter David's Aquaman run). Ah, yes. The whatnot. I'm well-acquainted with the whatnot... If nothing else, I'm glad the revival has inspired new material from you. If you are interested in picking up a 10YL book, send me a Friend request on Facebook and I'll add you to the secret group page. Actually, anyone else reading this may consider this is an open offer (but make sure you send me a message letting me know this is DC2 related, because I typical don't accept Friend requests from people whose names I don't recognize). |
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Post by David on Aug 26, 2015 19:19:51 GMT -5
It's hard for me to express what this feedback means to me, since this issue was (for all intents and purposes) my fan fiction of Brandon's brilliant early work on the title. Everything that's good about it, has its root in my love for those issues. What can I say to do this justice? It's a fantastically fun and cool read, and a perfect ending to the stories started so many short years ago. I am honored and thrilled that you picked up the reins on this to steer the tale home, Dave. Your Hawkman stories were precisely what brought me to the DC2 to begin with. I'd never really delved into fan fiction much before that, but I knew instantly that the stories you were presenting were of a different caliber. These weren't simply musings of an enthusiastic fan, but rather genuinely wonderful tales that were intelligently crafted and full of passion in most every detail. You have always been the utmost pro in the years that followed. Always a joy to collaborate with, and willing to take the time to give feedback on even the craziest half-baked ideas. You are a class act and have been a stalwart creative companion beyond what began here on this site. I can't thank you enough for being brave and bold enough to get this site going to begin with. I know it took a lot of your free time, but so many have benefited from your initial and continuing efforts. Careers have been launched, friendships have been made, and some damn fine stories and art have been created. I consider this one of the highest compliments I've ever received in feedback (though I blush to accept it); there is SO much talent that has come from the DC2, and mine is certainly not the greatest, but I think the day I sent out emails to you, Scott, Charlie and Ramon to join me in creating this place was a pretty great day.  No, sir, thank YOU. Though I really loved and appreciated getting the feedback from Charlie and UDC on this issue, I was holding my breath until you read it and approved. I don't want to gush too much, but I think it's no secret that I consider you one of my creative idols. There is so much joy and vitality and gonzo originality in what you do (here and elsewhere), and I'm certain you don't get the credit you deserve for it. There is something especially poignant, though, about these stories going up. Many of us, me included, consider this the last work we'll ever do for the DC2, and to be able to say goodbye in the company of such good and old friends is all that I can ask for out of this event. So thanks, Brandon--- for everything! |
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Post by HoM on Aug 28, 2015 16:15:15 GMT -5
Exactly, yes! Some of our best work was in the first year, leading up to the "Apokolips Imperative" (not to mention, a whole lot of important continuity established. Definitely worth digging into some of those backissues. I'm really proud of the work we did with the issue ten event-- ten months into the site and we wrote a story that was cohesive and dynamic, something that, I think, is a rare thing to see on a fan fiction site. Not only was it a challenge to wrangle (David being the 'showrunner' as it were, guiding maybe a dozen writers to tell one story) but it was also planned ten months in advance, and I'm pleased to have been a part of it. And then the issue twenty event, which was again a blast to contribute to. I miss those days! |
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Post by Brandon on Aug 29, 2015 18:33:42 GMT -5
To be true to the tradition of the site I will go ahead make a few story comments.
I loved seeing Krell go all Ahab and ride his obsession down into a watery grave. It was the most deserving fate of my attempt at giving Arthur an archetypal mad sea captain nemesis. I loved seeing Thomas emerge as a young hero and extending a hand to his father to avert a darker destiny. Now I'm wondering what costumed identity he will adopt as a potential All Star! All the threads tied together neatly and even into surprising new connections with the war of Chaos and Order. Very cool piece of footwork.
Aquaman faced the ultimate test after already feeling the curse had led him to the final downfall of his people, and emerged victorious on the other side of destiny into a new chapter in the chronicles of Atlantis! A wonderful ending to the saga.
And finally, I would love to see you cut loose on a story directly driven by Lovecraftian lore, Dave! I'm pretty sure it would be awesome.
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Post by David on Aug 30, 2015 8:06:51 GMT -5
To be true to the tradition of the site I will go ahead make a few story comments. I loved seeing Krell go all Ahab and ride his obsession down into a watery grave. It was the most deserving fate of my attempt at giving Arthur an archetypal mad sea captain nemesis. I think that's the interesting thing about Krell, and it's all built-into his character, going all the way back to Aquaman #1: he starts as Captain Nemo (with ideals) and develops into Captain Ahab (with obsessions). That's the beauty of the Ten Years Later stories! Whatever happens next will be uncharted and can entirely live in the mind and supposition of the reader. But for me, I think Thomas will adventure with his father and assume the mantle of Aqualad (Garth's moved on to other things, of course), and one day, he will be a wise and just king. Until, that is, the hitherto unknown bastard of Orm Marius and the witch Mergannys returns to contest the throne of Atlantis... (they don't call it the never-ending battle for nothing!) As is well-known, I've always wanted a shot at Aquaman (Brandon and I actually had a revival planned and slated for a few years back, which we could never get to, alas!), and when my thoughts about my Great Disaster story started germinating, I realized just how perfect it could slot into this 10YL book. I needed to write this story, in more ways that one. I had two things in mind: to pay-off the dark destiny foretold in Aquaman #0 and to give Arthur the ending he deserved as a beloved character. Reconciling those two goals was a bit of a stretch, but I'm happy folks seem to like my resolution. Thanks, Brandon! I take that as another of my favorite compliments. I've only been moved to make the pilgrimage to the graveside of two writers, and a couple years ago I stood in Providence, RI, at HPL's headstone (the other, by the way, was J.R.R. Tolkien's, of course); I'd like to say that it was there I swore a dread and solemn oath that I'd write an epic Lovecraft pastiche one day, sealing the pact with an invocation to an Elder God--- but I had actually already done that years before. And as soon as I'm finished with the DC2, maybe I'll get to it one day! |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Sept 1, 2015 14:44:28 GMT -5
Spectacular. The Atlantean mythology I love so dearly is back! It gave the tale a feeling of history and weight to it not seen in current Aqua-comics.
The reunions were heartfelt, the conclusion was both epic and foreboding with an overwhelming sense of hope!
I wasn't sure if Arthur would survive or not... the stage seemed set for his fall and Thomas's rise to the throne. Whew!
Beautifully done, my friends.
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Post by David on Sept 1, 2015 19:47:48 GMT -5
Spectacular. The Atlantean mythology I love so dearly is back! It gave the tale a feeling of history and weight to it not seen in current Aqua-comics. The reunions were heartfelt, the conclusion was both epic and foreboding with an overwhelming sense of hope! I wasn't sure if Arthur would survive or not... the stage seemed set for his fall and Thomas's rise to the throne. Whew! Beautifully done, my friends. Thanks, Scott! One of the things about Aquaman that you and I like so much is that blend of mythology and history which is grounded in real-world legends and mysticism. I had a blast playing around with that stuff, honoring Brandon's (and Pat's!) work on the character, and hopefully putting my own stamp on the Sea King, too. And there was no way I could have killed Arthur! This was a story about redemption, about not repeating the mistakes of the past (intertextual and metatextual both!)--- and besides, if I had, Brandon and Charlie would have killed me.  |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Sept 3, 2015 12:10:32 GMT -5
And there was no way I could have killed Arthur! This was a story about redemption, about not repeating the mistakes of the past (intertextual and metatextual both!)--- and besides, if I had, Brandon and Charlie would have killed me. I might have too. |
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