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Post by knightreaver on Apr 16, 2009 3:22:13 GMT -5
Just wondering who all is reading the Batman, Robin and Nightwing books.
And what you all think of the direction they are all going in.
I my self was disappointed as im sure you all were in the death of Batman. For me it wasnt the fact that he died, but how he died. It seemed empty if that makes sense.
But the follow up on his death in my eyes has been some brilliant story telling. Watching Nightwing and Robin deal with the death, and especially seeing Robin coming into his own. Growing up so to speak.
I have always loved a passing of a torch. For the first time in a while the Bat books have me on the edge of my seat, waiting for next months issue to see what is next in store for Dick and Tim.
Your thoughts?
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Post by HoM on Apr 16, 2009 6:26:11 GMT -5
I didn't mind the death of Batman in Final Crisis. If you get passed the shoddy continuity between FC and Batman R.I.P. (awkwardly enough explained in the Batman two-parter after R.I.P.) then you've just got the idea of Batman using a gun, and really... I didn't mind that. I know a lot of people were saying it's against his character, how he absolutely refuses to use a gun, but he's facing ULTIMATE EVIL, a literal GOD OF EVIL, and if he had to save the world to use a gun, I don't mind that at all. Grant Morrison said: " ...the root of the Batman mythos is the gun and the bullet that created Batman. So, Batman himself is finally standing there to complete that big mythical circle and to have the image of Batman up against the actual personification of evil and now he's got the gun and he's got the bullet. It seemed to me to work." I think people get too bogged down by the idea that Batman was going to die in R.I.P. He didn't. A lot of story-arcs bill themselves as The Death of Batman (remember that spate of Bat-family title covers with the logo: BATMAN DIES IN THIS ISSUE! and he appears way in the background with a rock falling on his head? Yeah. Exactly.) or BREAKING OF THE BAT. R.I.P. was a journey that took Batman low and brought him back up again. I didn't mind that. He was buried alive and broke out to much symbolism and fan cheering. I thought it was awesome. I guess I'm the inverse of you, John. I was enjoying Tomasi's Nightwing run immensely, shame that they cancelled it, but it got him on to The Outsiders, which is cool. It's not his best work (apparently The Light Brigade and Green Lantern Corps top that billing) but it's still better than a lot of the stuff out there. But Tony Daniel on Battle for the Cowl? Talk about obvious storytelling. Jason is a gun-toting Batman, we all knew it before the issues came out. Everyone's going to wear a Bat-costume, and Dick will be Batman at the end of it all. It could be construed as a step backwards for Nightwing, but I don't know, wouldn't everyone be in uproar is Jason, the murderer, became the Dark Knight? Wouldn't people be outraged by Tim Drake, who is still only about 18, still learning to be the best Robin ever, becoming the Caped Crusader? Dick was really the only choice. Unless The Knight took on the mantle... and that would be awesome.  Daniel's hijacked Damien's personality to make him more likeable, but will that holdover to Batman and Robin? No, most probably not. BotC should just end so we can get back to the books being on a regular schedule again. I want to read Red Robin (what can I say?), I want to read Batman and Robin, I want to read Batman and Detective Comics and I want to read everything else that's coming out of this event. And I hate that. The death of Batman has energised the Bat-books, but it's not the passing of the torch that's exciting me, John, it's what's going to come after the torch has been passed! |
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impulseallen
Staff 
Much More Than The Guy Runs Fast and the Guy Who Talks to Fish!
Posts: 561
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Post by impulseallen on Apr 16, 2009 9:34:01 GMT -5
I've been enjoying Battle for the Cowl as a action story. But overall...meh. Daniel's totally screwed up my favorite Robin. How did Jason go from somewhat redeemable in the last Robin issue where he heard Bruce's will(which seemed to have struck a chord with him) to a psychotic killer who shoots kids and tries to kill his "brothers"? Jason's just so off now.
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Post by Ammunition88 on Apr 16, 2009 11:11:42 GMT -5
First of all, I partially agree with Charlie, in that, yes what morrison said is true, it's everything circling around on itself.... BUT I don't think it should've ever happened.... Morrison is a tool for trying it in my opinion, but hey, nothing I can do about it, is there? so yeah, I agree with Charlie, but I still don't think Batman should've been put in that position....
As for the Gun-endowed Batman, I'm still not convinced that the gun-toting Batman is Jason Todd..... Remember the evil Batman that got away from Bruce right before R.I.P.? The "satan Batman"? I think it might possibly be him, but Jason isn't ruled out still.... As for the writing in the first issue of BftC, I thought the dialogue was horrible! That whole bit with Robin talking about the new Batman, saying
"But, there's one matter to clear up first. And that's to let the wannabe know that he's a wannaBEEN. Though your intentions are in the right place, friend, I'm sure we can come up with a new persona for you. Something like "Captain Phoney"... or maybe "Identity Complex Man"?"
I will say this about the issue though... I'm a big damien hater, so, it was nice to see him screaming mommy like a little baby when croc was about to chomp him......
But, again, I thought the Bat-books (with the exception of morrison's book) were all doing better than ever, and all of this has really slowed it down for me... I mean, Tomasi's Nightwing spoiled me big-time.... His is, without a doubt, the best personification of Nightwing I've ever had the pleasure of reading... And Dini's Detective was also great.... and, after the lack-luster Dixon run on Robin, Nicieza came in and blew me away!.... then, we get two of those title canceled, then, when Tec does come back, it's all about Batwoman..... Yeah, I'll be dropping that...
To me, she just isn't interesting at all.... part of that, I think, is the fact that she was pretty much created because DC wanted a prominent lesbian hero.... don't get me wrong, creating a great complex character and making her a lesbian as an after thought is fine, but just creating a lesbian character and building from there is a big mistake..... I think that's why she fails as a character...... anyway, I will say that I'm definitely looking forward to Gotham City Sirens.... can't wait to see how that turns out...
so, how about everyone lists the Bat-books they'll be picking up after BftC is over?
mine are...
Batman
Red Robin
Streets of Gotham
Gotham City Sirens
Outsiders
what about you guys (and gals)?
-Cam-
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Post by HoM on Apr 16, 2009 11:26:16 GMT -5
As for the Gun-endowed Batman, I'm still not convinced that the gun-toting Batman is Jason Todd..... Remember the evil Batman that got away from Bruce right before R.I.P.? The "satan Batman"? I think it might possibly be him, but Jason isn't ruled out still.... It is Jason, pretty much established in BotC#2, unless they pull something big. Also: gun endowed. That made me lol  I will say this about the issue though... I'm a big damien hater, so, it was nice to see him screaming mommy like a little baby when croc was about to chomp him...... He shouldn't have though, he was trained by the League of Assassins. His mum is Killer Croc. She'd send him packing back to him with a katana or something, so it's not entirely in character for him, IMO. when Tec does come back, it's all about Batwoman..... Yeah, I'll be dropping that... HAVE YOU SEEN THE ART?! To me, she just isn't interesting at all.... part of that, I think, is the fact that she was pretty much created because DC wanted a prominent lesbian hero.... don't get me wrong, creating a great complex character and making her a lesbian as an after thought is fine, but just creating a lesbian character and building from there is a big mistake..... I think that's why she fails as a character...... I disagree. Being lesbian isn't a defining part of her character, she's just not had a chance to shine yet, which she'll get in 'Tec (I cannot wait for it). I'm not going to agree with you when you say she was created because DC needed a lesbian, that seems... unwieldy as a statement. I'm really looking forward to that book because I'm interested in the character, the art looks wonderful, and Rucka rarely disappoints. Lesbian doesn't come into it. |
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impulseallen
Staff
Much More Than The Guy Runs Fast and the Guy Who Talks to Fish!
Posts: 561
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Post by impulseallen on Apr 16, 2009 11:55:35 GMT -5
Tony Daneil confirmed that "Gatman" as some people are calling him is indeed Jason Todd.
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Post by Ammunition88 on Apr 16, 2009 16:41:28 GMT -5
for the record, charlie, yes I have seen the art and it's not bad, but I NEVER buy a book based on the art... for me, the story comes first.....comics may be a visual medium, but the greatest art in the world can't help a crappy story... not saying the Rucka is a crappy writer or anything, I do like him, but I hate the batwoman character, so, I won't be picking it up.....
as for the other statement... Paul Dini said in an interview (on newsarama I believe.... it's been awhile though) that DC pretty much came to him and said that they wanted him to come up with a character design for the "new" lesbian hero, batwoman...... If I can find that interview, I'll post it within the week..... the tricky part will be finding the darn thing.......
anyways, I stand by my previous statement..... just difference in opinion, I guess
-Cam-
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Post by Alex on Apr 16, 2009 17:35:46 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that Rucka created Kate Kane. Dini and Alex Ross came up with the costume 7 years prior when they went to DC with a plan to make Barbara Gordon Batgirl again, but they nixed it because they didn't want to lose their handicapped heroine.
Where exactly has the character of Kate Kane failed? She was involved in some pretty successful projects, 52, 5 Lessions of Blood and FC: Revelations.
Also, when is it acceptable to make a character gay? Five years after their debut? Ten? Maybe just playfully hint at it, but not explicitly say it? Sexuality is a huge factor in ones identity, so i would think that in creating a character, you would have to know the answer to that question right away. Just because a charcter is created to be a homosexual doesnt make it a failure, just like creating a character to be black doesn't make it a failure.
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Post by HoM on Apr 16, 2009 17:45:24 GMT -5
for the record, charlie, yes I have seen the art and it's not bad, but I NEVER buy a book based on the art... for me, the story comes first.....comics may be a visual medium, but the greatest art in the world can't help a crappy story... not saying the Rucka is a crappy writer or anything, I do like him, but I hate the batwoman character, so, I won't be picking it up.... But... but... JH Williams!! He's one of the most gifted, innovative, amazing artists in comics right now! His art puts so many others to shame! ...Someone put on the Star Trek fight music. I think I have a score to settle. |
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Post by Ammunition88 on Apr 16, 2009 18:17:35 GMT -5
for the record, charlie, yes I have seen the art and it's not bad, but I NEVER buy a book based on the art... for me, the story comes first.....comics may be a visual medium, but the greatest art in the world can't help a crappy story... not saying the Rucka is a crappy writer or anything, I do like him, but I hate the batwoman character, so, I won't be picking it up.... But... but... JH Williams!! He's one of the most gifted, innovative, amazing artists in comics right now! His art puts so many others to shame! ...Someone put on the Star Trek fight music. I think I have a score to settle. lol sweet! I've been itching for some action since my workout today.... but I warn you... I don't fight fair.... lol -Cam- |
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Post by knightreaver on Apr 17, 2009 2:37:17 GMT -5
I still have my stop sign from my days as a pro wrestler if you want to use it. lol.
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Post by ryokowerx on Apr 17, 2009 5:04:52 GMT -5
DING! DING!
Letsssssssssssssss get readyyyyyyyyyyy to rrrrrrrruuuummmmbbbbllllllleeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!
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Post by Ammunition88 on Apr 17, 2009 10:44:01 GMT -5
great michael buffer imitation ryo! lol
-Cam-
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Quester
Staff
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Apr 26, 2009 10:21:43 GMT -5
What were doing here with out bat books is essentially BotC but done well! lol
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Post by starlord on May 11, 2009 6:23:56 GMT -5
So far the best thing I've read from Battle for the Cowl has been the one shot that came out last week: The Network.
If you haven't read it and it's still on the shelves this week, I highly recommend it. I would LOVE for this book to become a series. Huntress, Oracle, Manhunter, Ragman, even Misfit was pretty cool.
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Post by Ammunition88 on May 11, 2009 10:44:32 GMT -5
Wasn't able to get it this week since diamond screwed up my local shop's orders...... so far for me though, the Man-Bat story was the best thing to come out of it...... I really hope they give Langstrom a bigger role in the Bat-universe coming up.... he's been shoved in the background for far too long in my opinion....
-Cam-
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Post by brigante133 on May 13, 2009 3:37:37 GMT -5
So far the best thing I've read from Battle for the Cowl has been the one shot that came out last week: The Network. If you haven't read it and it's still on the shelves this week, I highly recommend it. I would LOVE for this book to become a series. Huntress, Oracle, Manhunter, Ragman, even Misfit was pretty cool. I was a fan of the Arkham Asylum one shot but I've not read the Network. I'll check it out next time I get the chance but I feel so let down by the majority of Battle for the Cowl. I don't think its horrible its just boring for the most part. And that whole situation should not be boring. |
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impulseallen
Staff
Much More Than The Guy Runs Fast and the Guy Who Talks to Fish!
Posts: 561
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Post by impulseallen on May 20, 2009 17:36:43 GMT -5
Well after the final issue it's been revealed...
SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dick is the new Batman...THEY COPIED US! Damian's Robin, Tim will most likely be Red Robin, and Jason is "dead" though it is hinted that he will probably(obviously) be back. Worst part of the issue was it didn't reveal who the new Black Mask really was.
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