|
|
Post by starlord on May 3, 2009 3:22:38 GMT -5
We haven't had a poll lately or a discussion it seems, so I thought I'd throw this out there.  |
|
|
|
Post by Merai on May 3, 2009 4:56:08 GMT -5
Bart by a mile. Very glad to see it, but still can't read it because when you can name only three Legionnaires, and even then can only pick two of them out of a crowd, this is DEFINITELY not a series you can read and have any idea what's going on.  |
|
|
|
Post by HoM on May 3, 2009 6:10:40 GMT -5
I think with Final Crisis and Blackest Night, DC2 are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I personally hope that at the end of Blackest Night all the people who died during Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, in and out of their own titles, will return for good. Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Ronnie Raymond, Ralph and Sue...I think now is a good time for hope... so I'm going to say both, even though it was sold out when I went to buy it (same as #3).
|
|
|
|
Post by Ammunition88 on May 3, 2009 8:38:14 GMT -5
I'm happier with Bart back..... I honestly wish they'd keep superboy dead...... first of all, I really didn't care for the direction they took the character in the last few years.... and I never likd the fact that his costume was a t-shirt (I liked the old one with the goofy haircut better).....
Anyway, that's not why I want him to stay dead, though...... His death had real meaning! So, I think undoing his and J'onn's deaths would be a disservice to them....
It's like when marvel killed collossus a few years back.... he gave his life to save the lives of millions! And, as much as I hated to see the big guy gone, I was even more pissed that they discredited his sacrifice and made it seem worthless.....
Now, that said, I'm all for some Batman coming back..... his death was really stupid and never should have happened that way.... if it had been a more...... for lack of a better word "honorable" death, I'd be fine with Bruce staying gone (although God knows I'd still miss him).....
But, I've already said that before lol
-Cam-
|
|
|
|
Post by David on May 3, 2009 9:53:10 GMT -5
I don't have a special connection to either character, as the first time I read them was in Geoff John's Teen Titans run-up to Infinite Crisis, but I'm glad their both back as they seem to add something to the mix.
Loving this series, BTW. I am going to bind it with the Lightning Saga and Action Comics' Superman and the Legion of Super Heroes arcs.
|
|
|
|
Post by HoM on May 3, 2009 9:54:25 GMT -5
You and your binding, Dave, it's madness  |
|
|
|
Post by Ammunition88 on May 3, 2009 10:03:51 GMT -5
Dave, you BIND?.....HOW COULD YOU!!?? just the idea of binding one of my comics makes me cry.... waaaaahhhhh!...See, Dave, you made me cry, darn you lol....
-Cam-
|
|
impulseallen
Staff 
Much More Than The Guy Runs Fast and the Guy Who Talks to Fish!
Posts: 561
|
Post by impulseallen on May 3, 2009 10:05:33 GMT -5
I was extremely happy in #3 when they brought Bart back and back to the age he was before he was aged into Flash(which I hated). But man seeing Conner come back for "round three" with Prime...awesome.
So I'm happy both are back.
|
|
|
|
Post by David on May 3, 2009 10:29:40 GMT -5
Binding is awesome, addicting and kinda therapuetic. Instead of hiding your comics in long boxes, encased in plastic (all of which makes it a hassle to read, especially if you want to read multiple issues), it is so much nicer to pluck it off the bookshelf and read 20-30 issues at once. And I do professional binding, at a book bindery (not the 3-ring binder method). And in every case I've seen, a bound volume will sell for more than the individual issues seperately (a run of Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans recently went for hundreds on eBay!)--- though I have no plans to sell my comics (except the ones I will be putting on eBay in a few weeks to pay for a new batch of binds ), I want to read them and pass them along to my children. I have 30 volumes now, and plan on doing my entire collection eventually. |
|
|
|
Post by Romans Empire on May 3, 2009 12:14:15 GMT -5
Binding is awesome, addicting and kinda therapuetic. Instead of hiding your comics in long boxes, encased in plastic (all of which makes it a hassle to read, especially if you want to read multiple issues), it is so much nicer to pluck it off the bookshelf and read 20-30 issues at once. And I do professional binding, at a book bindery (not the 3-ring binder method). And in every case I've seen, a bound volume will sell for more than the individual issues separately (a run of Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans recently went for hundreds on eBay!)--- though I have no plans to sell my comics (except the ones I will be putting on eBay in a few weeks to pay for a new batch of binds ), I want to read them and pass them along to my children. I have 30 volumes now, and plan on doing my entire collection eventually. This is very interesting Dave. I have been in the process of selling 20+ years of comic books on eBay (keeping only the issues I can't part with and aren't collected in trade forms). I will have to look into doing this. My concern is the pages have no protecting from the elements and are exposed to the air? Is this correct or am I missing something? |
|
|
|
Post by Merai on May 3, 2009 12:17:18 GMT -5
the first time I read them was in Geoff John's Teen Titans run-up to Infinite Crisis, but I'm glad their both back as they seem to add something to the mix.. Really? ...So the first time you read Bart, he was acting nothing like Bart? |
|
|
|
Post by David on May 3, 2009 15:16:36 GMT -5
Binding is awesome, addicting and kinda therapuetic. Instead of hiding your comics in long boxes, encased in plastic (all of which makes it a hassle to read, especially if you want to read multiple issues), it is so much nicer to pluck it off the bookshelf and read 20-30 issues at once. And I do professional binding, at a book bindery (not the 3-ring binder method). And in every case I've seen, a bound volume will sell for more than the individual issues separately (a run of Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans recently went for hundreds on eBay!)--- though I have no plans to sell my comics (except the ones I will be putting on eBay in a few weeks to pay for a new batch of binds ), I want to read them and pass them along to my children. I have 30 volumes now, and plan on doing my entire collection eventually. This is very interesting Dave. I have been in the process of selling 20+ years of comic books on eBay (keeping only the issues I can't part with and aren't collected in trade forms). I will have to look into doing this. My concern is the pages have no protecting from the elements and are exposed to the air? Is this correct or am I missing something? No more protected than the older books in my library, some of which are upwards of 150 years old. This site can pretty much give you a wider picture of the growing phenomenon: www.thecomicforums.com/forum2//index.php?showforum=163 |
|
|
|
Post by Brandon on May 3, 2009 15:17:37 GMT -5
Glad to see them both back. Both are great characters when handled correctly. Geoff Johns should be given a special award. Like 'Official Fixer of All the Stupid Stuff DC Does' or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by HoM on May 3, 2009 15:21:35 GMT -5
Glad to see them both back. Both are great characters when handled correctly. Geoff Johns should be given a special award. Like 'Official Fixer of All the Stupid Stuff DC Does' or something. Though, at times, he is the one who causes some of the stupid stuff. I just think a good direction for DC would be to do the opposite of Marvel-- and give us back the people who died in the past few years and beyond. |
|
|
|
Post by Brandon on May 3, 2009 15:42:24 GMT -5
I think that so far he's done way more good than damage as far as getting characters back on track. Infinite Crisis is really his only big black mark. But it looks like Blackest Night has the potential to do just what you mentioned there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merai on May 3, 2009 16:23:54 GMT -5
Infinite Crisis is really his only big black mark. Well. Hopefully. Though I'm less than hopeful about Rebirth... |
|
|
|
Post by arcalian on May 3, 2009 19:23:53 GMT -5
I just think a good direction for DC would be to do the opposite of Marvel-- and give us back the people who died in the past few years and beyond. I don't think I've ever agreed with you more than I do with this. But don't get excited. Didio will find some way to screw it up. He always does. |
|
|
|
Post by HoM on May 3, 2009 19:38:37 GMT -5
Ah, we can dream, can't we?
And we may not agree on Didio, but I do hope that this is the next phase of evolution for the DCU. It probably won't be, but we've had it taken to a low (Identity Crisis), dismantled (Infinite Crisis), taken to another low (Final Crisis) and maybe instead of dismantling it again, we'll get some rebuilding.
But from the patterns of the DCU so far the past five, six years... ehh.
|
|
|
|
Post by arcalian on May 3, 2009 20:00:33 GMT -5
And we may not agree on Didio, but I do hope that this is the next phase of evolution for the DCU. It probably won't be, but we've had it taken to a low (Identity Crisis), dismantled (Infinite Crisis), taken to another low (Final Crisis) and maybe instead of dismantling it again, we'll get some rebuilding. But from the patterns of the DCU so far the past five, six years... ehh. Exactly. They seem to think that dismantling IS rebuilding. Also there's the fact that none of these "new stages of evolution" ever lasts long enough to mean something when it's gone. |
|
|
|
Post by HoM on May 3, 2009 20:04:43 GMT -5
Exactly. They seem to think that dismantling IS rebuilding. Also there's the fact that none of these "new stages of evolution" ever lasts long enough to mean something when it's gone. Alan Moore is the only man who can actually do the dismantling as rebuilding convincingly, but even then... |
|
|
|
Post by Brandon on May 3, 2009 20:29:34 GMT -5
Moore is one of the few guys that has that deep, intrinsic understanding of what makes these types of fictional universes work. Too bad he doesn't care about working with DC toys anymore.  |
|
|
|
Post by starlord on May 3, 2009 20:42:17 GMT -5
I went with Superboy, although I'm happy to see them both back. I find death and rebirth in comics to be a fascinating subject, though. Perhaps I've become somewhat jaded in the 30 some years that I've been reading them, but I've rarely been upset about any death. It just isn't real in the worlds of comics, and has rarely ever been perminant. That's why I'd rather look at the story, see if the death was well written and then sit back and wait to see how long before they come back. I guess maybe I'm a bit more warped than I realized because I find comic book death to be entertaining.  |
|
|
|
Post by arcalian on May 3, 2009 22:23:11 GMT -5
You're used to it, I'm sick and tired of it. And sometimes it is permanent, and even when it isn't, there's not gaurantee the character will be handled correctly when brought back (Jericho, anyone?) which is part of my worry where Bart and Conner are concerned.
I don't mean to be a wet blanket here. Enjoy the moment while it lasts. But I'm jaded too; just not the same way Brian is. And thus, I react.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ammunition88 on May 3, 2009 22:39:24 GMT -5
I just want a meaningful death to stick! Connor was one of those sticks!
Now, I don't mind bringing back some characters... ones who's deaths I, personally find meaningless (Captain America anyone?) but those like Colossus, Jean Grey, Supergirl, etc. should STAY DEAD! You're taking their moment of ultimate sacrifice and honor (the moment every hero lives for, I believe) and stripping it away.......again, don't get me wrong.... there are some instances where the death has no real meaning, and, in that instance, the character should be brought back ASAP without hesitation, but, the others... darn it, let them live on in our memories as some of the few who had what it takes to make the ultimate sacrifice....
-Cam-
|
|
|
|
Post by Merai on May 4, 2009 7:01:10 GMT -5
Now, I don't mind bringing back some characters... ones who's deaths I, personally find meaningless (Captain America anyone?) No actually, I don't agree with you there. My personal philosophy on character deaths is simple; does killing them take away less than it gains? For instance, killing Bart. It takes away a vibrant, bright and totally unique character and adds... ummm... tragedy to Wally? Who then basically never mentioned it again?? To use another example; Bucky. I would have been 100% absoloutely certain bringing back Bucky took away more than could possibly be gained by having him alive.... except then it happened, and it didn't. With Cap, I would have agreed with you right up to the moment he died But if anything, I would say I have enjoyed the 'Captain America' series more since Steve Rogers died, because New Cap is a fantastic and fascinating character and Cap's death actually does add something, just as Barry Allen's did. I would be quite happy to see Cap stay dead forever. Although mind you, I wanted Barry Allen to come back nd now that he has, I really wish he hadn't. So I'm a changeable person. |
|
|
|
Post by Ammunition88 on May 4, 2009 9:52:21 GMT -5
I've hated the direction they took the Cap books... as a matter of fact, my outlook on the Marvel world is this.... There is no Cap.... in my eyes, until Steve is back, Cap is dead and gone because Bucky has disgraced the mantle in every way......one of the many reasons there's only 1 marvel book on my pull (Captain Britain).... but, I've been down this road before, so I won't go into that again...
-Cam-
|
|
|
|
Post by Merai on May 4, 2009 11:19:28 GMT -5
I'm not gonna argue with you- we disagree and that's that- but I am curious to know why you think Bucky has 'disgraced' the mantle? Is it just because he's used a gun? (And non-lethally at that)
|
|
|
|
Post by lissilambe on May 4, 2009 12:01:02 GMT -5
And of course, the question also boils down to: what's meaningful? What does that mean? And by whose standard?
Captain America's death was pretty dumb and meaningless in my book (and for lots of people, fans or not of the character or title). However, by any real measure, the "Bucky as Cap" storyline and the resulting other storylines that boiled out of that have been big successes, regardless of personal feelings on the shift, you must admit. The critical acclaim the writing and plotting have received shows that. So does that really mean Steve's death was truly meaningless?
I disliked greatly Colossus' death. His willingness to sacrifice was cool, but the manner of curing mutants by one guy dying strained credibility for me, and made the death silly and stupid. Plus, his resurrection gave us possibly one of the sweetest panels in the history of comics in my (and others', I'm sure) opinion: his racing to the rescue as he runs through Kitty, leaving her stunned and emotional. What impact. Does that mean his death had (or lacked) meaning?
We can all kind of look at Superboy-Prime punching Pantha's head off as meaningless, but does that mean she really deserves to come back when she wasn't a very meaningful character to start with (at least in the last few years) and there are plenty of other extant cat-people to use in a story that would call for one?
So the "meaningful" measure is as ephemeral as all the other 'fan benchmarks' in comics. It's one of the things that makes the subject of character death and resurrection in comics such a hotly debated topic.
Take care
Don
|
|
|
|
Post by Ammunition88 on May 4, 2009 14:26:07 GMT -5
I'm not gonna argue with you- we disagree and that's that- but I am curious to know why you think Bucky has 'disgraced' the mantle? Is it just because he's used a gun? (And non-lethally at that) There's an entire list of why I think Buck has disgraced the mantle.... I go over that list constantly with friends (and as I said, it's a long one) so I won't go into it here.... but yes, the gun was one of many things I found to be a disgrace.... and I'll tel you why.... Cap is a guardian... a defender.... that's why his shield was all he ever used... he didn't go looking for a fight, only to stand up against injustice.... so, giving him a gun is stupid and tears down everything he stood for..... so yeah, I hate bucky, even before he bacame cap I hated him..... bringing him back from the dead was a huge mistake in my book and that's another reason why I refuse to recognize the existence of a Cap in comics today.... when Steve comes back, I'll start reading Marvel again (if they have a good writer on him.) but, until then, I'm avoiding them like the plague (other than MI13)........ -Cam- |
|
|
|
Post by Brandon on May 4, 2009 20:27:09 GMT -5
A comic book death may be meaningful within the context of its own story, and it may have resonance in many other stories that follow, but don't ever fool yourself into thinking it is permanent. There simply isn't such a thing in comics. If the character was ever beloved by anyone eventually it will return. Actually I'd say the more meaningful the death the more likely the return of the character is inevitable. The amount of story potential of a return only compounds as time goes on.
That might be one of the unwritten rules of comics I think... the more a story shouldn't happen, the more likely it is that it eventually will.
|
|
