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Post by Romans Empire on Nov 21, 2007 1:04:53 GMT -5
Please let us know what you think and don't forget to rate the issue!
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Post by capeandcowl on Nov 21, 2007 2:09:15 GMT -5
thanks again to John for taking the time to edit my work. This one was something of rush given my work schedule (so I've just taken a run through fixed some annoying typos! my bad!)
And thanks to darth for another badass cover.
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Post by HoM on Nov 21, 2007 12:17:47 GMT -5
I found this to be the weakest issue of the run, unfortunately. I've loved the direction of this book so far, but then this just felt rushed and contrived in places, and I think I'm just going to be honest with the things I liked, because no one ever improved by being lied to: Never bring Alfred into a plan. That's asking for trouble. He's what, 60? 70? Umm, no thanks. What was Bruce thinking? The Joker scene was... Oooh, I didn't like it. Seemed contrived and I felt kind of embarassed reading it. He wasn't scary, and wasn't funny. He was pretty rubbish to be honest. Nightwing was taken out too easily. He's not a punching bag! I know this isn't his book, but he's been trained by the best! Better than Jason was! And to be knocked out like a chump? Argh, didn't like that... And his stupidity was pretty awful. Felt Alfred was quite condescending to him too. Jason Todd/Redwing/"X" (X? Ouch. Red X, at least, please  )'s banter was awful. Didn't like his juvenile attitude. Trained by the best. Yes, he was nearly killed when he was a kid, but honestly, he's a deadly assassin. He shouldn't make bad jokes. Wrath/Elliott's death was awful. You made him to be such a major threat, and then Jason Todd/Redwing/"X" kills him with a bullet to the back of the head? I didn't like that. But I'm holding out in the hope that he wasn't actually the Wrath, because he seemed to lost the scary style he had in the early issues of this run and the City of Crime mini. He just got gobby. I'm thinking maybe there might be another Wrath... Or maybe more than one! |
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Post by lissilambe on Nov 21, 2007 12:44:15 GMT -5
This was definitely a major disappointment after the mystery and suspense that was built up over the previous parts of the story. Instead of a continuing drive toward a powerful confrontation that has the Bat atypically rattled (for good reason, that's always good, to see the Bat off his game for legitimate reasons), we get modern pro wrestling melodrama and bizarre (almost goofy) swerves that derail the roaring train.
Sadly, this was one of the weaker portrayals of the Joker I've read in quite sometime. His dialogue was forced, the humor fell painfully flat, and the whole bit with the "dream of Killing Joke" was terrible. Sorry to be harsh, but seriously...that was terrible. Joker was "verbally jobbed" in this scene to continue to try and make Tommy Elliot seem dangerous, to put him over, and it didn't work, I feel. Maybe because I disliked Elliot's existence to start in DCU, maybe not. But it didn't work.
Alfred out on the field? Has the Sixties Batman TV show taught us nothing? Mind you, I don't mind him doing some surveillance apart from the Bat, I kind of like him having some intelligence background as various incarnations have hinted at (helps to explain how he can be such an aide to the Bat's mission), I don't even mind when he does surreptitious "battlefield retrieval". But putting on a mask and charging into the field of battle? With a "Joker-Level" menace? One that just an issue or two ago, Bruce didn't want Nightwing to deal with?
As for poor Dick...taught how to be a detective by Starfire in his own series, over here we see why. The poor Boy Hostage, comes with his own ransom note. Sad. So Sad.
The attempts at story swerves to make Todd a big, big threat just made a muddled mess of the direction the story was going in. Too much of everything trying to top every other event to try and make this seem big and dangerous and important and all that. It was too much, and it fell flat, sadly. And with another part to go, I can't help worry that it's just going to try and get even more "show-stopping". It's a delicate balancing act, to get all these sorts of elements to work together well, I know. Sadly, in this part, it just didn't work.
I'll give part five a go, since up until this segment, the story was solid and entertaining. A misfire won't drive me away at this piont, and I'm sure you can bounce back and get into the game again. I apologize if some of this seems harsh. Keep trying and we'll see how it goes in thirty days.
Take care
Don
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Post by capeandcowl on Nov 21, 2007 12:47:04 GMT -5
I found this to be the weakest issue of the run, unfortunately. I've loved the direction of this book so far, but then this just felt rushed and contrived in places, and I think I'm just going to be honest with the things I liked, because no one ever improved by being lied to: I appreciate the honesty. Sorry you didn't like it. I just don't regard Alfred as being utterly passive all the time. The character history has him being a badass as a younger man. Like Jim Gordon, I think relegating Alfred to a background character who never gets his hands dirty or gets into the fight doesn't make much sense. At some point, I think, he should take an active role outside of tending to injuries and making tea. Sorry you didn't like it. All I will say at this point is that scene is there for a reason. Well who said he was better than Jason? Why is that written in stone. Plus he has a concussion. Moreover, Dick has never had Batman's scope of arcane knowledge. It's not that Dick is stupid, but he isn't a genius either. He's been making bad jokes since City of Crime and in every issue of this run. I'm don't see a reason to change that now. Everything you need to know about Thomas Elliott's shooting in this issue, and I'm not saying more than that at this time. |
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Post by starlord on Nov 21, 2007 23:28:10 GMT -5
I think this issue has a LOT going for it! Sure, it might not be the strongest issue to date, but no writer can it a homer every time (belive me, I know, lol), however, I enjoyed it from beginning to end. I'm liking the character of Redwing so far, and the revelation of the Wraith was well done, and something I honestly didn't see coming. I'm also tickled that Alfred is in the middle of things, as he was at one time in Tec (may he rest in pieces  ). The cover was dynamic and a definate attention grabber. I applaud this issue and can't wait to see where it's going from here. |
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Post by capeandcowl on Nov 22, 2007 9:48:48 GMT -5
Thanks B.
I will admit the issue WAS rushed. It was the last thing on a big pile of work that had to get done over the last two weeks.
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Quester
Staff 
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Nov 24, 2007 5:19:38 GMT -5
I loved it. I thought it was brilliant. Admittdely rushed and Tommys death was a let down but im hoping thats not the end.
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SympleSymon
Staff
New writer for BATMAN - Returning Soon!
Posts: 97
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Post by SympleSymon on Dec 13, 2009 20:28:33 GMT -5
I can see how this was rushed, so I'm just going to in out there and say I enjoyed this issue for the story, more than the execution. Elliot's death was seemingly anti-climatic, but I can see you were banking on a total OMG shock twist, and it sorta works. Four stars!
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)'s banter was awful. Didn't like his juvenile attitude. Trained by the best. Yes, he was nearly killed when he was a kid, but honestly, he's a deadly assassin. He shouldn't make bad jokes.
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