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Post by HoM on Apr 7, 2009 16:19:29 GMT -5
This issue has been a long time coming, it's roots found in Grant LaFleche's run in Batman, probably over a year ago now. This Prologue not only leads into DC2 Nemesis, but also the ongoing storylines running in Batman and Detective Comics too!
So, the cliffnotes!
Jason Todd made his "return" to the Bat-books in a big way as Red-X, the violent, deadly, vicious vigilante that knew that Batman failed to save him when he was Bruce's first sidekick, before Dick Grayson (controversial, I know)! Redwing, as he was known back then, was kidnapped by The Wrath, and tortured and murdered again and again for years before he was able to escape and return to Gotham City. Bruce believed him dead, and so was quiet surprised when Jason started killing his rogues gallery!
Now, in the aftermath of Bruce's death, Jason returns to the stage, under a new guise... intrigued? I hope so!
So, you've read the Prologue, please, tell us what you think!
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Post by David on Apr 7, 2009 18:44:31 GMT -5
Wow... This was intense. This issue pulled no punches, but then I would expect nothing less from this creative team.
I'm not a fan of JT in the DCU, but I find his DC2 incarnation very compelling, and this installment only reaffirms that. This is an interesting study of a tortured and complex character looking not only for redemption, but for the place in Batman's world that should rightfully have been his. Made his scene with Dick at the end all the more poignant.
Another nice addition to what is turning into a fascinating and tightly plotted DC2 event--- can't wait to see what comes out of this whole Nemesis storyline, and where JT goes within it!
Awesome cover, too. This is a five star book!
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Post by walnutcookie on Apr 7, 2009 21:52:05 GMT -5
Chilling.
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Quester
Staff 
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Apr 9, 2009 13:31:01 GMT -5
Possible the best issue Ive read. No joke. The writting is immense. The way bat n 'tec are being written is so intense. I loved this issue. And Jason was done perfectly and so far from the cliche. Beneath the vengeful uber violent former sidekick was an actual person and I thought the dialogue between him and Dick was so clever. Didnt see it coming and at first I was like 'What is this supposed to be?' then realised it was anything but stereotypical on purpose. Felt very human and real and what those two characters would actually have to say to each other at this point of their lives with everything that had jsut happened. Brilliant! And sweet cover too. Cant say enough for this issue
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Post by capeandcowl on Apr 10, 2009 2:23:21 GMT -5
Ok guys, I have been waiting for this issue for AGES....and let me tell you this was fantastic.
When we Bat-writers at DC2 started talking about my nutty idea about killing Bruce Wayne (long before Batman RIP I might add) there was one story that I thought NEEDED to be told. I had brought Jason Todd into the DC2 as a more tortured version of his DCU incarnation, and I only hinted and his inner conflict, self hatred and complex views about Bruce Wayne and Batman. So when we did the deed and sent Bruce to his death with Ra's, I thought it was critical we look at how our Jason Todd would react.
Charlie and Ramon jumped at the chance and early on they sent me the opening passages of this story and I was already impressed. Time passed and we started to see lots in Batman and Detective about Dick as Batman, and teh changes in Gotham, but THIS was the story I really wanted to read. I felt that wherever the Batman stories go in DC2 in the future, the reaction of Jason to the death of his adoptive father had to be examined. So I waited....and waited....and waited...
And WOW was it worth the wait. This was everything I had pictured for Jason Todd when I wrote him in Batman...and MORE. You guys have added such depth to Jason and explored his tortured psyche in a really original way. He is a powerful and tragic figure.
The big highlight for me was the confrontation between Dick and Jason- two sides the same coin, two guys trying to live up to what they see as their father's legacy. The contrast was powerful and moving.
Seriously, you guys did a fantastic job with this. Colour me impressed and I cannot wait to see where this goes.
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Post by starlord on Apr 10, 2009 6:13:15 GMT -5
Absolutley. Brilliant.
WOW! This was one of the most intense and emotionally jam packed story I have read of a Batman character in ages (both in DC proper and here as well).
I am truly at a loss for words. It blew me away. Thank you guys. Thank you for reminding me what DC2 was originally set out to be, and what it still does four years later.
BRAVO!!!
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Post by brigante133 on Apr 10, 2009 17:30:48 GMT -5
Wow, thanks you guys. I'll respond in more depth in a bit but I'm about to leave to an artwalk thing downtown so I don't got much time. But yeah... for now, THANKS! ;D
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Post by HoM on Apr 11, 2009 16:00:58 GMT -5
Wow... This was intense. This issue pulled no punches, but then I would expect nothing less from this creative team. This is one of the reasons I enjoy writing with Ramon. We kind of come from the same place with themes and narrative style, and I love the visceral "rawness" of Ramon's writing. I'm not a fan of JT in the DCU, but I find his DC2 incarnation very compelling, and this installment only reaffirms that. This is an interesting study of a tortured and complex character looking not only for redemption, but for the place in Batman's world that should rightfully have been his. Made his scene with Dick at the end all the more poignant. Jason Todd is a character I am trying really hard to make work in the DC2. He was murdered dozens upon dozens of times during his time in captivity by The Wrath, and this has left him really traumatised, and he'll lash out at anything or anyone he thinks has wronged him or his ideals. Another nice addition to what is turning into a fascinating and tightly plotted DC2 event--- can't wait to see what comes out of this whole Nemesis storyline, and where JT goes within it! Ramon and I are excited about the character, and not only is Jason Todd going to be regular fixture in the ongoing Batman title, we have a DC2 Nemesis Epilogue planned. Jason is also playing a huge role in the DC2 Nemesis miniseries itself, and in #3 and #4 you see how he interacts with the Justice League! Awesome cover, too. This is a five star book! I'm glad we've done right by you! See you in a few for the next Prologue! |
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Post by HoM on Apr 11, 2009 16:01:36 GMT -5
Thank you, completely one of the tones we were going for, especially with The Carpenter and The Walrus... |
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Post by HoM on Apr 11, 2009 16:11:43 GMT -5
Possible the best issue Ive read. No joke. I am quite pleased with this statement. Ha! The writting is immense. The way bat n 'tec are being written is so intense. As I'm currently the writer of Batman and Detective Comics, I am going to lap up that compliment well and truly. Seriously though, working with Mike Hewison on Detective Comics is a complete laugh, and the two simultaneous storylines that are running in 'Tec right now will be resolved in an Annual, because we've both had technical difficulties getting #39 out. #40/41 are a bit in the air right now, as issues are half written, but the general Bat-mythos is going to be taken into overdrive in the next few months. Batman, on the other hand, is going to be a rollercoaster ride. The two Bat-titles are going to be weaving together very soon, just as they did when Grant and Brian were doing brilliant work on the books, and we're filling the book with as many exciting concepts as we can. Having just finished writing my next issue on the title, I have to say, I'm excited! I'm taking the groundwork established by Grant LaFleche, and we're going to some bat£$%^ places with them! And how can I talk about Batman without mentioned Nightwing? Not only is Dick Batman in Bats and 'Tec, he's also running around as Nightwing in his own title still! Robin gets a chance to shine at the pen of Im and the edits of Ellen, and I can't wait to work with them... wait, was that a spoiler? I loved this issue. And Jason was done perfectly and so far from the cliche. That's all down to Ramon and his amazing grasp of the character. Grant introduced him, showed us what he was capable of, and Ramon ran with it. This isn't the end of our collaborations on the character! Beneath the vengeful uber violent former sidekick was an actual person and I thought the dialogue between him and Dick was so clever. Didnt see it coming and at first I was like 'What is this supposed to be?' then realised it was anything but stereotypical on purpose. Felt very human and real and what those two characters would actually have to say to each other at this point of their lives with everything that had jsut happened. Yeah, I'm so pleased that came out as well as it did. Dick is Batman, and has as much claim to the mantle as Jason does, so as long as Jason keeps it on the straight and narrow, in his own individual way, then why can't there be two? Though, saying that, when a certain laugh-happy individual returns to Gotham soon, trouble might start brewing... Brilliant! And sweet cover too. Cant say enough for this issue Thanks Rob, glad you enjoyed it. |
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Post by HoM on Apr 11, 2009 16:18:32 GMT -5
Ok guys, I have been waiting for this issue for AGES....and let me tell you this was fantastic. Thanks Grant! When we Bat-writers at DC2 started talking about my nutty idea about killing Bruce Wayne (long before Batman RIP I might add) there was one story that I thought NEEDED to be told. I had brought Jason Todd into the DC2 as a more tortured version of his DCU incarnation, and I only hinted and his inner conflict, self hatred and complex views about Bruce Wayne and Batman. So when we did the deed and sent Bruce to his death with Ra's, I thought it was critical we look at how our Jason Todd would react. Exactly... Charlie and Ramon jumped at the chance and early on they sent me the opening passages of this story and I was already impressed. Time passed and we started to see lots in Batman and Detective about Dick as Batman, and teh changes in Gotham, but THIS was the story I really wanted to read. I felt that wherever the Batman stories go in DC2 in the future, the reaction of Jason to the death of his adoptive father had to be examined. So I waited....and waited....and waited... Yeah, we've stop-started with this book, and it finally came together as a tie-in to DC2 Nemesis, which I'm more than happy about. I realised that Jason needed a high profile, and his character worked so well in consideration to this event. Retroactively, I know what I would have done with the character from Day One, but heck, we can't look back now! And WOW was it worth the wait. This was everything I had pictured for Jason Todd when I wrote him in Batman...and MORE. You guys have added such depth to Jason and explored his tortured psyche in a really original way. He is a powerful and tragic figure. As anyone who has had any kind of indepth conversation with me about villains knows, I love tortured characters. I like villains that try not to be evil, I like redemption and pain and hardship and I like people overcoming the odds. Jason Todd is the perfect character for this kind of investigation on character, going from deadly assassin (yes, we know he's killed, we know he's a murderer, and we intend to confront that) to dangerous vigilante. Soon you might start to wonder if Dick made a terrible mistake "condoning" Jason's actions... The big highlight for me was the confrontation between Dick and Jason- two sides the same coin, two guys trying to live up to what they see as their father's legacy. The contrast was powerful and moving. Again, I'm glad that came through so well. It's sometimes hard to think around the idea that Jason was the first sidekick and Dick was the second, but it's dialogue like that which makes the whole situation interesting for me. Seriously, you guys did a fantastic job with this. Colour me impressed and I cannot wait to see where this goes. Follow Jason Todd as the Dark Knight into Batman, which, maybe, will be undergoing a name change soon for a few months... |
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Post by HoM on Apr 11, 2009 16:32:24 GMT -5
Cheers! WOW! This was one of the most intense and emotionally jam packed story I have read of a Batman character in ages (both in DC proper and here as well). Why, thank you! We did try to do something different with this. I am truly at a loss for words. It blew me away. Thank you guys. Thank you for reminding me what DC2 was originally set out to be, and what it still does four years later. I think I can feel proud to be the recipient of a compliment like that. Chars! |
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Post by Merai on Apr 11, 2009 17:54:49 GMT -5
Charlie, you devil! You don't get how it works at all, do you? When my issue is delayed for weeks, you're supposed to put it out on a slow week, not on a week with an issue this damn good!  As I've made known before, I am far from what could be called a Bat-fan. Now add that to my general dislike of Jason Todd and of course this issue was going to be meh at best. Well I don't know how you and Ramon did it, Charlie, but.... argh. You're going to force me to start reading the Bat-books on the DC2 if they're like this. Fantastic internal monologue throughout, with a gripping style of writing that made the entire issue disappear in no time but never skimped on the detail. It wavered between being deeply unsettling and well, more deeply unsettling. (Particularly towards the end...) but it never ceased to grab my attention, and the developments here.... well, I'll be following what I can into Nemesis, and what I can't, as I said, I may have to follow to the ongoings. And Ramon? Wonderful cover. The colouring in particular helps it match the surreal feel of much of the issue, and sets it apart very distinctively. Five stars all round. |
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Post by HoM on Apr 14, 2009 15:23:41 GMT -5
Charlie, you devil! You don't get how it works at all, do you? When my issue is delayed for weeks, you're supposed to put it out on a slow week, not on a week with an issue this damn good! I didn't get that memo.  As I've made known before, I am far from what could be called a Bat-fan. Now add that to my general dislike of Jason Todd and of course this issue was going to be meh at best. Obviously... Well I don't know how you and Ramon did it, Charlie, but.... argh. You're going to force me to start reading the Bat-books on the DC2 if they're like this. Oh, bugger! Fantastic internal monologue throughout, with a gripping style of writing that made the entire issue disappear in no time but never skimped on the detail. I won't take the credit for that, Ramon took the lead with this issue, and I adore the way it came out. I've said it again and I'll say it once more, working with Ramon is always a fun experience... It wavered between being deeply unsettling and well, more deeply unsettling. (Particularly towards the end...) but it never ceased to grab my attention, and the developments here.... well, I'll be following what I can into Nemesis, and what I can't, as I said, I may have to follow to the ongoings. Jason Todd's DC2 life is plotted out quite thoroughly, and you'll see more of him in Batman, and also in, as I've mentioned before I think, a DC2 Nemesis Epilogue, which, if I were to give you the full title, would reveal a bit too much that we're willing at this juncture. And Ramon? Wonderful cover. The colouring in particular helps it match the surreal feel of much of the issue, and sets it apart very distinctively. Five stars all round. Cheers for taking the time, Kevin! Really do appreciate it. Now get back to The Flash. I hear it's crap and needs a lot of work to get back on track... |
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Post by arcalian on Apr 14, 2009 22:07:28 GMT -5
No, Jason, you aren't The Dark Knight.
You're Azrael.
Complete with a voice in your head. Only the voice in your head isn't St. Dumas, it's a little girl.
You kick ass pretty well, JT. But you just don't get it.
But this ain't news.
Very well written.
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Post by UltimateDC on Apr 15, 2009 0:12:18 GMT -5
This was a weird issue. But a well told story nonetheless. The "lethal vigilante" story had been done to death, but you've breathed fresh life into it. Jason Todd's madness is very well written and very intriguing. I hope to follow his adventures in the future.
-UDC
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Post by HoM on Apr 15, 2009 21:21:37 GMT -5
No, Jason, you aren't The Dark Knight. Yes he is. We establish it with Jason's own internal monologue.  I think Brian's got dibs on them over in New Outsiders. Check it out!  Complete with a voice in your head. Only the voice in your head isn't St. Dumas, it's a little girl. Yeah, Jason is pretty insane. You kick ass pretty well, JT. But you just don't get it. Get what? That he's the Dark Knight? Because we establish with his internal monologue that he does It should be, but I'm aware that Jason is still being built back up. He's not an idiot! He's not a fool! He's been broken into little pieces, his moral centre has been wholly corrupted by torture and murder... his own torture and murder at the hands of the Wrath! So right now, he's hurting bad, and he's patching over the wounds with a bat costume and a mission, but soon it's all going to come falling down around him, and you won't want to miss that. Thank you! High praise indeed  |
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Post by HoM on Apr 15, 2009 21:23:25 GMT -5
This was a weird issue. But a well told story nonetheless. The "lethal vigilante" story had been done to death, but you've breathed fresh life into it. Jason Todd's madness is very well written and very intriguing. I hope to follow his adventures in the future. -UDC Yeah, we were completely aware that we weren't treading new ground, but we wanted to do something different anyway, without being clichéd or derivative to what you expect from us. I was worried you'd all find certain scenes really obvious, but your reaction to the scenes in question informs me otherwise, so hopefully future adventures will continue to surprise! Thanks for the comments, UDC! |
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