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Post by Admin on Mar 27, 2007 14:20:38 GMT -5
Please let us know what you think!
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Post by David on Mar 27, 2007 16:10:49 GMT -5
I am at a loss right now to explain how I feel about this issue... I can't say I enjoyed it, but there is no doubt that no issue on the site has had a more significant emotional impact on me--- reinforced by the simple, poignant cover (no title logo, no issue number, nothing to distract from the raw emotion that this issue is all about; a terrific choice by the editor, artist and writer).
I believe that this is one of the most important issues on the site, certainly one of the best written and most lovingly-crafted. And no one but Brian Burchette could have given it to us.
This issue kicks you in the gut, hands you a hanky, then sings you a sad song.
I'm still processing it, but I do want to say that Brian has made me care enough about these characters that this was not an easy issue to read (despite the fact that I knew what was coming, almost since the beginning). I feel real sorrow for Adrian and Helena, whose tragic, doomed story at last comes to an inevitable end in these pages.
I don't know where the Outsiders will go from here--- this is one of those issues where nothing really will ever be the same!--- but I, for one, will be there when the survivors try to pick up the pieces from this storyline.
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Post by HoM on Mar 27, 2007 16:15:38 GMT -5
I'm not going to say anything but this: New Outsiders #16 is one of the best issues on the site. And it only takes one read to know why. Some people might not like what happens, some people might be made uncomfortable, but this isn't about playing it safe, or telling the easy stories.
Brian Burchette, in my opinion, tells the stories that are WORTH reading.
Anyway, well done Brian, well done.
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Post by Romans Empire on Mar 27, 2007 16:55:08 GMT -5
I am having a hard time coming up with the words here, thankfully David was able to express a lot of my thoughts already. I agree with him on every point, especially how powerful the cover was. Damn! Hats off to Roy for making it work as well as it did!
Brian, you and I talked about this issue some before it posted but I still wasn't prepared for the emotional impact it would have on me. Hell I thought that last issue ran me through the wringer but this put my over the top. I gulped so hard as the final scene played out.
I thanked you last issue for not being afraid to tell this type of tale. Well now I want to thank you for ending it with thoughtfulness and class. The stories that are sure to follow will be just as classy and well thought out as I would expect from someone who has mastered his craft like you have. Of course I will be there to see what happens every step of the way.
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Post by arcalian on Mar 27, 2007 16:58:38 GMT -5
Half of this story was no surprise to me at all. I saw that half of the story coming two issues ago, if not the specifics of how it played out, because I knew where that character went in the "official" DCU.
The other half....well, I went through that last issue. This was the fallout.
After the last issue, I went through a long, long chain of PMs with Brian. And to a lesser extent John, and HouseofMystery there above me. Despite everything (or perhaps because of it), Brian is still backing me, supporting me, going to bat for me. Giving me the opportunity to take the other path. The path this story doesn't follow. For that he has my gratitude.
As I said, part of this story I saw coming two issues ago, and would've seen sooner had I been here before the first DC2 Crisis. For that character I feel nothing but pity.
For the other character.....well, Brian knows what I think. For HouseofMystery and everyone else of that school of thought, I can only say; been there, done that, bought the comics produced of that school of thought form the official DC, numerous times. Didn't bother with the t-shirt. No thanks.
That said, I was greatly releived that no further violation occured, and the character bounced back as well as they did, considering. I wasn't sure I was going to be able to read this issue at all; I was afraid I was gonna get about halfway through and then have to stop. Thankfully that was not the case.
I'm still here. I'm still here because Brian is still going to bat for me (which amazes me no end), because I know how good a writer he is, and I know one of the things he's going to do after this in this book. Something to look foward to.
So for me, last issue was the kick in the gut Idlewilder talked about. This issue was, for all it's tragedy, the beginning of the turnaround.
Long may the path upward continue.
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Post by Admin on Mar 28, 2007 2:11:20 GMT -5
I am at a loss right now to explain how I feel about this issue... I can't say I enjoyed it, but there is no doubt that no issue on the site has had a more significant emotional impact on me--- reinforced by the simple, poignant cover (no title logo, no issue number, nothing to distract from the raw emotion that this issue is all about; a terrific choice by the editor, artist and writer). Well, to tell the truth, the cover didn't have the logo, etc., because I posted the incomplete cover as a temporary measure until the finished version was ready. Having said that, following on from your comment, I've decided to go back to the simple version. By the way, excellent cover, Roy. |
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Post by David on Mar 28, 2007 7:37:54 GMT -5
SPOILERS:
I just wanted to add my two cents regarding the fate of Vigilante.
This is significant, because the fate he met in DCU canon is considerably more bleak. Suicide means giving up, being overwhelmed, admitting defeat. The Adrian Chase of the DC2 never accepted that. He fought and struggled to the end. He had found something worth fighting and struggling for.
This is the road Adrian Chase was on since the beginning. He is no 9-year old child witnessing his parents' murder by an anonymous thug--- Adrian had his wife and unborn child cruelly taken from him because of his persecution of a bad man. How would a man react to that? How does a man process that, stay sane, and get beyond it? Is it even possible? It is horrific to imagine oneself in Adrian's shoes, as Brian bravely has, but it cannot be denied that his story is compelling.
To me, Adrian was always one of those shades-of-gray-type characters, a man whose destiny was written the minute his family was destroyed, and only a hero by circumstance. He never wanted to save the world. He never planned to fall in love with Helena. He had a mission. Everything else that happened to him, happened by accident, but informed his character just as much as that first deadly moment. He went out trying to overcome his dark destiny, refusing to believe he was too broken to overcome what was killing his spirt, and redeemed in some small part by Helena's love. He may not have been a hero, but he was a man who, in the end, tried to rise above his own demons.
It takes a writer of special sensitivity to bring that out in a medium like this. I have so much respect for Brian and his talent, and this issue is just one example why.
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Post by starlord on Mar 28, 2007 8:04:33 GMT -5
There are a few things that I've been wanting to say for many months now, but have kept silent until this story came to it's conclusion. So if by chance you are reading this and haven't read the end of this story, shame on you! Go now and read it. Because there are major SPOILERS in this little piece of narcissism
Back in the summer of 2005 I was wandering the DMB, reveling in finally finding people that had the same love for comics that I do, when I read this message about a new site where fans could write their own stories, I was intrigued. I contacted the man named David Charlton and he filled me in on what they were doing. Now I was sold. I wanted in! I had never wrote anything for anyone else to read, and the thought scared the daylights out of me, but I wanted to try it. I wanted to write my favorite team of all time... The Teen Titans! But alas, it wasn't to be since they already had writers lined up for that book. Instead, David asked if I would be interested in writing this group of heroes instead.
Let's see, Green Arrow (my all time favorite comic hero), Barbara, Dinah and Helena (the birds, and my all time favorite comic), plus Zatanna and Vigilante! Adrian Chase - Vigilante! Sure! I'll grab on to that! The mature title made me a tad nervous. Not what I was expecting, but what the heck, let's give it a try.
Looking back, I'm so glad I did. This very small part of the DC2 world has been one of the best experiences of my entire life. These characters have become a labor of love for me. A love that did not make it easy for these last few issue's to be written.
One of the things that David suggested when he handed over the reigns was that Adrian really should die. At that time, I was all over that. Sure! A death scene! Awesome! We both agreed that we wanted to take him out stronger, not the way DC had done it. Not suicide. Then, as I started writing and the characters became more and more a part of me, I began to dread this last issue. There was a part of me that didn't want him to go. I wanted him to live happily ever after with Helena and raise a family of crossbow shooting, nun-chuck throwing, babies. But I always go with my gut, and my gut was telling me that this was the right direction to go. It really wasn't easy, though. Neither was the horrific events of last issue, either. I'm not ashamed to say that by the time I was writing those last few paragraphs of this issue, I had tears coming from my eyes as well. Death is not an easy subject for me, when I really examine it. Two major deaths in the last twenty years has made me cringe from the subject. But I took those feelings that I experienced during those most sad moments of my life and tried to use them in bringing the story the weight it deserved. I do hope that I accomplished that.
Now that my first year (or just over) of this book is accomplished, I hope I can keep you all entertained with the next direction this group heads in.
Just over a year! I can't believe it. I've been blessed with some outstanding cover artists. Riz, Ramon, and Roy all have a unique perspective and I've appreciated the hard work that they have all given for this book.
SIDE NOTE: Roy was kind enough to do an extra piece for this story, so if you've already read it, go back and take a look at his awesome bookend picture to this story!
I also want to thank Charlie for always being there to listen when I kept doubting every issue. And John and Susan have been two of my greatest supporters as well, and for two writers who's talents I highly admire, it is a great honor.
But what I really want to say to end this little self indulgent moment, is that I honestly couldn't have done this or stayed with this if it hadn't been for Mark and David. I will never get tired of singing the praises of these two gentlemen. I commented to someone, not to long ago, that even though I'm over forty and my own person, when it comes to these two, I feel like the baby brother who is always trying to be more like his big brothers. Always working hard to impress them and make them proud. Silly, probably, but true.
So thank you guys, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all of this. Even though my children are really the completion of my life, thanks to you two, I have a nice red cherry to place on top of it. These last couple of issue's are dedicated to the two of you. For your patience, your advice, and your friendship.
And thanks to everyone that keep coming back to read these stories. I hope the best is yet to come.
Now on to answering some letters...
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Post by starlord on Mar 28, 2007 8:31:09 GMT -5
Idle Pt1.: Thank you for the kind words. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for creating this site. As I just stated, your approval always means a lot to me. If this story touched you, then I guess I did something right. Charlie: Well, my friend, one of the first things you ever told me was that Vigilante was one of your favorite characters. I hope, in the end, he left with enough dignity to please you. Thanks for listening to all my whining and self-doubt. And thank you for your support. (No, this is not a Barttle and James commercial) John: Really glad you liked the conclusion to this. It took me everything I had yesterday not to blurt out the story to you when we were on the phone. LOL! Again, the fact that it made you gulp at the end means that it touched you, and that makes me feel good. You're one of my all time favorites on this site, so your comments are always highly valued. Arcalian: You're fired. Clear out your desk and be out of the office by five.  Seriously, I can't say that your comments didn't throw me for a loop at first, but I highly respect them. Although you knew what was coming with Adrian, I hope I gave him a bit more dignity in death then what DC proper did. I will always expect you to be honest and straight forward with your thoughts and comments. Oh, and I'll be torturing and killing Tera in issue #21. Hang around for the fun.  I kid, I kid.... it's issue #22. ;D Idle Pt. 2: That's what I was wondering. Thank you again. |
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Post by >>Riz! on Mar 28, 2007 13:18:25 GMT -5
The death of Adrian is DC2's version of Superboy for me. DAMN! Just when I start to love a character the autor kills him.  But I must say this was one of the best written deaths I've read so far. Very well done. 5 stars. |
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Post by HoM on Mar 28, 2007 13:31:05 GMT -5
And Roy! Powerful final image there. Brought a tear to my eye |
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Post by UltimateDC on Mar 28, 2007 21:41:12 GMT -5
Wow. Another issue that has no words to describe it. Amazing.
-UDC
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Post by starlord on Mar 28, 2007 23:04:39 GMT -5
The death of Adrian is DC2's version of Superboy for me. DAMN! Just when I start to love a character the autor kills him. But I must say this was one of the best written deaths I've read so far. Very well done. 5 stars. thank you very much for that, Riz. I'm in the same boat as you are. I really got to the point where I was loving this character as well. perhaps, someday, Superboy Prime will show up and pound on a wall, and Adrian will once again appear. Nah, we strive for much better then that, here at DC2. |
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Post by starlord on Mar 28, 2007 23:05:40 GMT -5
Wow. Another issue that has no words to describe it. Amazing. -UDC thank you, and thank you for continuing to read and express your thoughs Ult. It is always appreciated.  |
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Post by goldk on Mar 29, 2007 21:36:32 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the compliments, but all kudos must go to Brian. He told me what he wanted and I drew it. That simple. He knew exactly the image the issue needed. I had to read the ending several times to make sure it happened. The big moment for me was when Vig decided to give up what he had searched for to go save Helena. That spoke volumes! Thank you Brian for such a touching and thoughtful issue. I know you work hard to make every thing work for a reason and this was totally believable. Characterizations were right on. I know some of the little stuff got lost in the big picture but Ollie better back off or Dinah's gonna hand him his!
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Susan Hillwig
Staff 
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
Posts: 1,612
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Post by Susan Hillwig on Mar 29, 2007 21:45:21 GMT -5
No words to say that haven't been covered in the other posts. Except... Rest in peace, Adrian. You will be missed.  |
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Post by starlord on Mar 30, 2007 7:43:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the compliments, but all kudos must go to Brian. He told me what he wanted and I drew it. That simple. He knew exactly the image the issue needed. I had to read the ending several times to make sure it happened. The big moment for me was when Vig decided to give up what he had searched for to go save Helena. That spoke volumes! Thank you Brian for such a touching and thoughtful issue. I know you work hard to make every thing work for a reason and this was totally believable. Characterizations were right on. I know some of the little stuff got lost in the big picture but Ollie better back off or Dinah's gonna hand him his! Although I may have asked for it, it was you Roy who did it with the beauty and rawness that it deserved. You are the man Roy Flinchum! Never forget that! Thank you for all your hard work and for reading the issue as well. Good call with Ollie and Dinah, by the way. You always notice those small things, and I appreciate that. Believe me, that small thing will be growing. In retrospect... that didn't sound right.  |
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Post by starlord on Mar 30, 2007 7:45:09 GMT -5
No words to say that haven't been covered in the other posts. Except... Rest in peace, Adrian. You will be missed. Yes, yes he will, Susan. |
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Post by zirron on Apr 20, 2008 3:33:54 GMT -5
I came to the party pretty late.. but.. yeah. I hadn't read this title in months b/c of not being able to find time to read the fic that derived so much emotion..
But tonight I finally did.
I.. I am lost for words.
Brian, your work here is simply amazing... normally nothing can get to me.. if you knew me that's saying something, but then again, this was.. perfection in every detail. I cannot express the carthesis I felt from this... tears. Tears that I don't usually shed ever. But this passage did that:
Thank you Brian for this work of art... I give it 5 stars all the way.. the art by Roy is emblematic of this stylistic tale of sorrow and emotion..
Peace.
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Post by starlord on Apr 20, 2008 22:00:32 GMT -5
Wow, this was... this was a... I read your comments and was completely thrown off. This ment a lot to me that one year to the month later, this issue still has resonance.
I thank you so very much for this. I was very proud of this issue, and I don't say that very often about my own stuff. I'm glad that it sang to you, because it's been my favorite story I've told so far.
Thank you very much for the nice comments.
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Seriously, I can't say that your comments didn't throw me for a loop at first, but I highly respect them. Although you knew what was coming with Adrian, I hope I gave him a bit more dignity in death then what DC proper did. I will always expect you to be honest and straight forward with your thoughts and comments. Oh, and I'll be torturing and killing Tera in issue #21. Hang around for the fun. 
I kid, I kid.... it's issue #22. ;D
