Dr Dread
Staff 
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Oct 27, 2008 21:52:27 GMT -5
Last week, I picked up Final Crisis, Final Crisis: Submit and Secret Invasion.
I couldn't believe the amount of gore displayed, especially in Secret Invasion. (I guess the Skrulls being aliens, Marvel feels they can show more green blood and flying body parts). Final Crisis: Submit displayed a man impaled in the head.
If these were mature books, I wouldn't have a problem. Secret Invasion (which had the most gore) was rated Teen (13 and up). Final Crisis has no rating, so all-ages I guess. Frankly, I thought the gore was too excessive for these titles. The Final Crisis books each had one panel I thought had gone too far, but the Secret Invasion book was excessive from cover to cover.
Now before anyone labels me as having a "delicate constitution" or just being reactionary, I'll tell you that I'm a volunteer emergency responder with the Red Cross. I have assisted people suffering from heart attacks; slit wrists; shards of glass embedded in a person's mouth; various head and spinal cord injuries. I've come out incidents covered up to my elbows in other people's blood. I don't revel in gore, but it takes a lot to bother me.
What do you think of the gore in today's comics?
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Post by zirron on Oct 27, 2008 23:42:38 GMT -5
hey doc,
I gotta fully agree with you on this, because I picked up a Red Sonja book last year... (and yes I know it's a violent book,) and they showed the birth of a demon baby and then they showed the baby's head getting ripped off and blood spurting all over the place...
I put the book down and never finished it. Not to this day.... I tend to avoid books with excessive graphic violence because I don't really get the point of showing violence.
I mean we see it on TV... movies... do we really need to see it on our comics? I mean comics are really geared for the kids, but there are adults that read comics because that's what we grew up doing.... but I don't get it... I mean sure have some violence but not graphic nonsensical gore that adds nothing to the story.
It's all about shock value... and once you desensitize your audience what's left? I mean how much farther will they go or allow? I mean there was a code decency that's been crossed... and we've never said no. I mean they do that for video games and movies.. why are comics being ignored?
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Post by HoM on Oct 28, 2008 4:01:10 GMT -5
Argh, Jay, I wouldn't go so far as to request another Seduction of the Innocent to be written, as that creates a whole other amount of problems for the comic book industry. I was also wondering... the Comic Code Authority, what was it? Really? Wasn't it just a label? Not really a group, but a marker of " Hey, we give in, we'll play by your rules"? I'm not a big fan of seeing gore in comic books. It seems to be too obvious (and yes, I know, I know  ) when our imaginations are much better at creating an image of pure terror. I believe there is a need to self regulate, but look at the world we live in today, and think about how the comics are merely reacting to that. At the cinema on Friday, Saw V opened. Never have I seen it so busy (though Quantum of Solace opens THIS Friday, so I'm screwed). Every screening was jam-packed, and I was so surprised by that. We need to think things through. What's reasonable in this world? Stop thinking about what's popular in our current society (as other writers, I believe, are) and scale back a bit. What we don't see is more effective than what we do see. Some writers have forgotten that. |
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Post by arcalian on Oct 28, 2008 11:57:38 GMT -5
As much as I would like to see characters handled better, a modern-age Seduction of the Innocent or any other move towards censorship would not solve the problem and is a bad idea generally.
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 28, 2008 18:08:21 GMT -5
Censorship is not the key, I agree. But I also agree that the rise of shock value tactics to try and win comic readership has gotten out of hand, and the gore is just one aspect of that. There's also the verisimilitude of this kind of thing too, on the "reality" that we've come to accept from Marvel and DC universes. By and large, powers don't have "realistic" effects on people in those worlds, so when you see Black Adam punch out Terra's heart or stuff like that, it reminds readers that all the other super-strong characters SHOULD be doing that to the norms on a regular basis (as just one example). It's a literary version of throwing stones in a glass house.
And ultimately, excessive gore (or any shock tactic) is just not necessary and absolutely leaves future writers stuck for how to make things "more shocking", surprising, and what not. There is nothing wrong with restraint from our creators. Nothing wrong with appropriately used shocks and swerves and even some gore perhaps...but appropriately necessary for the story should be the key phrase, I feel.
Take care
Don
Don
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Post by HoM on Oct 28, 2008 18:10:27 GMT -5
Don
Don
?
Eep.
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Post by chris on Oct 28, 2008 18:44:30 GMT -5
Placing censors or labels on them will in my opinion ruin everything. If memory serves, didn't comic sales go down to almost nothing when the old censors were put in place? I dunno if there's a real problem with the gore the best thing to do is not buy it.
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Post by zirron on Oct 28, 2008 18:48:38 GMT -5
yeah might have gone too far with that thought.... i blame being exhausted.
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Post by chris on Oct 28, 2008 18:52:06 GMT -5
Censorship is not the key, I agree. But I also agree that the rise of shock value tactics to try and win comic readership has gotten out of hand, and the gore is just one aspect of that. There's also the verisimilitude of this kind of thing too, on the "reality" that we've come to accept from Marvel and DC universes. By and large, powers don't have "realistic" effects on people in those worlds, so when you see Black Adam punch out Terra's heart or stuff like that, it reminds readers that all the other super-strong characters SHOULD be doing that to the norms on a regular basis (as just one example). It's a literary version of throwing stones in a glass house. And ultimately, excessive gore (or any shock tactic) is just not necessary and absolutely leaves future writers stuck for how to make things "more shocking", surprising, and what not. There is nothing wrong with restraint from our creators. Nothing wrong with appropriately used shocks and swerves and even some gore perhaps...but appropriately necessary for the story should be the key phrase, I feel. Take care Don Don I disagree. I think Black Adam with comparable strength to saay Power Girl, punching a hole through someone's chest and her not ever doing it is more about him being a character who would and her being a character who wouldn't. I don't see that it would relate that way to say that readers now expect PG to punch a hole in someone. |
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Post by lissilambe on Oct 28, 2008 19:39:20 GMT -5
It can indeed say something about her and him as characters. But I know several people who are very susceptible to their suspension of disbelief snapping, and this one example is piled up with a lot of other examples of similar nature to do just that. That's my point. It's just another aspect of that nature of storytelling that has a cumulative effect on whether or not I like the direction of modern comics in regards to DCU and MU, and like titles/universes.
Take care
Don
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Post by chris on Oct 28, 2008 20:48:35 GMT -5
I see what you mean Don. I think that if it's that big of a problem though, ultimately people will just quit buying comics. Then they are forced to change what they are doing in the interest of self preservation. Comics is one of those industries where there is always someone else doing something else. If it's good then people will buy it. It is sad that the characters we all grew up with are being so drastically changed by it but the market will dictate whether it changes or not. i guess the real question is about gore on Superhero comics. Which I must say I do agree that it shouldn't be so prevalent in that case, but is loads of fun in horror.
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Post by batkid on Oct 31, 2008 20:56:09 GMT -5
The amount of violence is ridiculous. I have 5 younger siblings who all beg to read/for me to read to them, and often request my comic books. I have been able to let them read only a couple, simply because of gore. They don't need to see that. Of the youngest 3, Kiara's 11, Isaac's 8 and Koby is 4. They don't need to see Grotesk's victims, or Bruce standing in an alley full of his parents' blood. They are okay with 'comic book violence'-- such as many cartoony Spider-mans, or the WB Batman or something, but as for more realistic looking pictures? Koby's terrified of the fight scenes on Beauty and the Beast! Why expose them to that? They're going to see more violence and gore later in life than they will want, so I see no need to expose them to more for 'fun'.
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Post by batkid on Oct 31, 2008 21:00:35 GMT -5
As for my comics that I read myself, I agree with Don-- it's an attempt to make it shocking, but honestly-- how many ways can you kill a person? I would rather read a story, with a plot, and pictures that lend more to the actual story, than look over frame after frame of 'oof' 'noooo!', etc, while every drop of blood the victims lose is splattered across the page. A little violence and gore is alright, but when you rely on that to create your story and entice readers, then you need to rethink your story.
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Post by David on Oct 31, 2008 21:34:12 GMT -5
Well said, Imari.
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Post by David on Oct 31, 2008 21:40:41 GMT -5
There is certainly a place for adult comics, but the mainstream books should be enjoyed by all ages.
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Post by chris on Oct 31, 2008 23:44:51 GMT -5
They do have a kid oriented line based on the animated shows though.
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Post by starlord on Nov 1, 2008 1:05:28 GMT -5
when I first saw the title of this thread I couldn't figure out what comics Al Gore was in to begin with.  But I will say that I'm not a fan of huge gore in the mainstream books. For stuff like Preacher and The Boys, it works fine and is really part of the whole approach of the book, but I really didn't need to see Superboy Prime knock Pantara's head off her shoulders. Although am I the only one with a sick of enough humor to think it's kind of funny that during every battle Risk is now in, he loses another limb. That has to be on purpose... right? |
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Post by HoM on Nov 1, 2008 7:37:50 GMT -5
Coincidence  |
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) when our imaginations are much better at creating an image of pure terror. 
