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Post by HoM on Oct 15, 2007 16:37:55 GMT -5
We all know the story, but for those who don't, cliffnotes:
Bob Kane, an artist, had an idea. A mish-mash of concepts nailed together to form the "Bat-Man".
Bill Finger, a writer, came along and refined that concept into a character that is iconic and that has lasted for decades.
But Bob Kane got all the credit.
Is this right?
Thoughts!
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Mischief
Staff
I Sit Upon My Throne As The Guardian & The Keeper Of The Lightning.
Posts: 1,517
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Post by Mischief on Oct 15, 2007 17:23:13 GMT -5
Hell no its not right.
It's like giving Stan Lee sole credit for Marvel and forgetting Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and Bill Everett.
Bill got shafted.
Mischief
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Post by arcalian on Oct 15, 2007 19:17:49 GMT -5
As a writer I would be remiss for not supporting the writer in this situation. I'm ashamed to admit I never really thought about it.
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Post by cheshire on Oct 15, 2007 19:52:49 GMT -5
I know I might recieve some hate mail or something for this, but I'm kind of on the fense about this. Sure, Bill Finger refined Batman and gave him structure, but, and I have no clue on this, but would he eventually made this character or a similiar one on his own? Given, Finger he does deserve credit, but Kane put things in motions, where Finger kept the ball rolling. Who deserves more credit, or any credit for that matter? Probably both.
*slowly steps off fense...*
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Post by arcalian on Oct 15, 2007 21:08:21 GMT -5
That's why we want him credited as a co-creator, Cheshire. Not taking credit away from Kane, but giving Finger credit too.
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Post by zirron on Oct 15, 2007 21:27:00 GMT -5
This is a classic question..
I am glad Charlie brought it up.
Bill Finger deserves the same credit that Bob Kane does, but Bill Finger died much sooner (1974) than Bob Kane (1998.)
When it came down the pike for the original writers and artists to get lifetime pensions from Warner Brothers... Mr. Finger was long gone.
I agree with Jay, that Mr. Finger and Mr. Kane deserve equal credit... maybe Mr. Finger more so because his creativity is what made Batman successful.
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Post by brigante133 on Oct 15, 2007 21:28:44 GMT -5
An excerpt from Eisner/Miller:
Miller: Did you ever read the story that Archie Goodwin wrote that was a parody of Bob Kane's career?
Eisner: No, he did a parody?
Miller: It was about a guy who said he was an artist and hired a writer then hired an artist, so he created a combo, but he wasn't there.
Eisner: I was on the phone the other day with Jerry Robinson who was kind of sad about the whole thing.
Miller: Oh yeah, I've talked with Robinson. Robinson livened an Eisner Awards ceremony when he proposed a new award named after Bill Finger that would be for uncredited writers and artists and would be called "The Finger" and then he flashed his middle finger at the crowd (laughter)!
Eisner: The big thing I remember about Jerry Robinson is that he once said to Bob, "Look, you're very successful now, and you can afford to give me credit for what I did," and Bob said, "I don't see it that way." That was the end of the conversation.
Miller: Geez.
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Post by arcalian on Oct 15, 2007 21:31:50 GMT -5
Geez indeed!
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Post by l1701e on Oct 15, 2007 22:37:14 GMT -5
I say we should give Finger credit.
Kane did come up with the idea, true. That's not in dispute.
However, Bill Finger did come up with ideas for the Batman's look that helped make him iconic. I heard that Kane wanted to give Bats a RED costume and more of a domino mask, but Finger gave him a cowl and the black-and-grey outfit.
I got the Batman Begins DVD, and in it was a card with a correction on it:
Art by Bob Kane Story by Bill Finger
That made me smile.
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Post by Romans Empire on Oct 15, 2007 23:02:59 GMT -5
Two quotes from Bob Kane's wiki entry:
Kane, who had already submitted the proposal for Batman at DC, and held a contract, is the only person given official company credit for Batman's creation.
According to Kane,
“ Bill Finger was a contributing force on Batman right from the beginning. He wrote most of the great stories and was influential in setting the style and genre other writers would emulate ... I made Batman a superhero-vigilante when I first created him. Bill turned him into a scientific detective. ”
It is sometimes forgotten that Finger was a writer and Kane was an artist. It may even be debatable that the only reason Kane gets the credit he does is because of his contract with DC.
There is no question that Finger co-created Batman.
Truth in death is less satisfying then in life isn't it?
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Post by zirron on Oct 16, 2007 0:23:04 GMT -5
Truth gets out in the end.
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Post by cheshire on Oct 16, 2007 15:21:10 GMT -5
That's why we want him credited as a co-creator, Cheshire. Not taking credit away from Kane, but giving Finger credit too. Haha I noticed that after I posted my comment and looked at the poll title but was too lazy to remove it! We're all intitled to at least one Paris Hilton moment a day!
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
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Post by Dr Dread on Oct 17, 2007 14:17:58 GMT -5
Hmmm... Well, reading the replies I guess I've got the unpopular opinion.
First, I don't want to sound like I don't respect the work of Bill Finger. I do. I know Bob Kane hired a bunch of artists and writers to produce work that he was getting paid for. Bob Kane screwed a lot of people over.
However, almost every writer that embarks onto a title changes and refines a character a little more than what it was before. Batman had a lot of contributors throughout his history that made the Batman what he is today. Same for Superman. Today's Superman is not the same Superman that was created by Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel.
In brief, if you want to credit Bill Finger, you'll have to credit every other contributor who has created any significant part of Batman's legacy. Or you can just credit the man who created the original (and somewhat crude) concept, Bob Kane.
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Post by arcalian on Oct 17, 2007 16:26:35 GMT -5
Well see, Dread, without Finger, there'd be nothing for anyone else to interpret in the first place, just some conceptual artwork by Kane. Saying we need to credit every writer after Finger is like saying we need to credit every artist after Kane, too.
Which is not to disrespect any of said writers or artists, of course.
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Post by Crow on Oct 20, 2007 23:17:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I have to agree with Jay. It's not like Finger came along five years later and continued the Batman series. He was with Kane from the beginning s'far as I know...and what i mean when i say that is that before it became a comic Finger had joined in. Kane created the lightbulb, Finger put electricity to it.
With that said, I believed he deserves credit. Any character made nowadays between a creative team is made by both members of the team, unless one person write and drew the character. If a writer makes a character and the artist happens to draw that issue, they both created it. If an artist draws a cool character and the writer pens him in, they are both the creative team. Even more for Finger, he was instrumental in shaping Batman into what he was in Detective Comics, helping Kane to smooth out the rough edges.
And this is why Finger deserves credit.
I think Wizard did an article a few years ago on this too...maybe on the verge of the creation of Batman Begins...I forget...
I have to admit that before that article I had no idea who Bill Finger was. I had never ever heard of him. Now I feel like he has been cheated so bad. Kane is infamous for taking the sole credit of creations...if Siegal and Shuster deserved credit for Superman, and they did, so does Finger.
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Mischief
Staff
I Sit Upon My Throne As The Guardian & The Keeper Of The Lightning.
Posts: 1,517
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Post by Mischief on Oct 21, 2007 5:08:15 GMT -5
That's why we want him credited as a co-creator, Cheshire. Not taking credit away from Kane, but giving Finger credit too. Haha I noticed that after I posted my comment and looked at the poll title but was too lazy to remove it! We're all intitled to at least one Paris Hilton moment a day! Well as long as your don't have A video out on the internet.
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Post by noblemania on Apr 9, 2008 23:12:37 GMT -5
I'm months late to the party but those interested in Bill Finger might be interested in my blog noblemania.blogspot.com. I've got a book coming out this year called Boys of Steel: The Creators of Superman, about Siegel and Shuster, and have written another on Bill's role in Batman. The blog tells behind-the-scenes stories of my research and promotional efforts, including never-before-published photos.
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