Batman: Family or Army?

(I voted family )

This is pretty similar to this poll:

www.dc2universe.net/index.cgi?board=openforumforallmembers&action=display&thread=1186196000

Hmmm.. Good question Dave.

I think in the begining, it was a family. In the last few years, it really seems like a little army.I think Frank Miller can be thanked for the Bat army, as illustrated in Dark Knight Returms.

I find it hard to vote. I agree with Dave: the idea is in the middle. I got used to the Bat Army but it doesn't mean it's the best...besides, that's how Stephanie Brown got killed...perhaps if she was approached a different way she wouldn't have had to prove herself so hard to Bruce...

But on the flipside, the Army is what keeps them tough enough to be the premier 'superhero family' of non-powered people. they have some of the best examples of heroes who have no powers. All because of Bruce's influence. Nightwing is a brillant tactician and fighters, and his own experiences has molded him into a great friend and leader. Robin is one of the smartest of the young heroes. Batgirl has matured into a very valuable ally for every person in the DCU. Even Jason Todd is effective in his own way. Not to mention the other bat-family members who are a bit more estranged.

Sure all of these characters had their own abilities, specialities and innate skills that they would have had without Bruce. Dick is probably a great leader by his own, Tim was a smart kid and detective before Bruce, Barbara was a smart computer nerd before Bruce, etc. But through Bruce they grew exponentially.

So somewhere in the middle is definitely ideal.

I think Batman may have started off wanting an army--or at least a soldier. There's a line in Dark Victory where he tells Dick that he'll never be a 'father'. Somewhere along the road, that changed. And when Dick moved on, Bruce took on not only another Robin, but a son. However, he glossed over some of Jason's shortcomings and emotional hangups, as parents often do, and Jason's recklessness got himself killed. Naturally, like any good parent, Bruce started thinking back, wondering what could have happened differently--and decided that he'd been too lax, too forgiving. That vigilanteism was harsh, and that it required soldiers--not children. Hence the memorial in the cave. And the more 'professional' relationship with Tim. And the standing aloof from everyone else, as generals are wont to do. Problem is, at Bruce's core there is still a child who lost his family very young--and doesn't want other people to go through the same scenario. And he knows that Dick didn't need a 'general' at age 8 any more than Bruce himself did. His very desire to keep others from suffering the way he did undermines the army model, because he understands that someone bereft of family will seek it out.

I think that Bruce may believe he wants an army. He may justify it as the only way that he can allow the others to be around him--because if they're a family, then he needs to protect them and he can't do that by thrusting them into danger. Therefore, they simply can NOT be a family--except that they are.