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Post by HoM on Nov 7, 2005 15:30:01 GMT -5
Religion in comics, discuss...
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Post by giantevilhead on Nov 7, 2005 16:30:54 GMT -5
You got a link or something?
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Post by brigante133 on Nov 7, 2005 16:46:11 GMT -5
dont go all linda from coffee talk (is that what that skit was called "coffee talk") on us charlie
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Dr Dread
Staff 
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Nov 7, 2005 16:53:08 GMT -5
"I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!" -Homer Simpson
That about sums it up for me....
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Post by dragonbat on Nov 7, 2005 17:37:34 GMT -5
Well, Jewish heroes tend to be under-represented. And when they are there, they're basically the ones who are just like everyone else except they wear a star of David. (Kitty Pryde, Ragman, whatsisname in JSA--Adam Roth/Atom Splitter?, Det. Cohen in Gotham Central--who makes an off the cuff remark every 6 months or so and vanishes).
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Nov 7, 2005 17:44:30 GMT -5
Well, Jewish heroes tend to be under-represented. And when they are there, they're basically the ones who are just like everyone else except they wear a star of David. (Kitty Pryde, Ragman, whatsisname in JSA--Adam Roth/Atom Splitter?, Det. Cohen in Gotham Central--who makes an off the cuff remark every 6 months or so and vanishes). How could you forget the most powerful jewish superhero/villain (depending on his meds, I guess): Magneto |
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Post by starlord on Nov 7, 2005 17:45:02 GMT -5
Of all those that you named, dragonbat, Kitty was the only one that I was aware of. If I remember correctly (and I hardly ever do), there was a mini series with her and Nightcrawler back in the late eighties where they discussed their religious views. It was pretty good actually.
As for DC2 and religion I guess I'm not sure of the question. Are we asking how in depth we want to use religion or how do we want them respresented? Or should religion be avoided all together? Personally I'm happy with Brother Blood. ;D
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Nov 7, 2005 17:50:38 GMT -5
I couldn't beleive Marvel did this back in the 80s:  As described by X-Entertainment: "Do I really even need to give this a commentary? What could I possibly add to this one to make it any funnier than it already is? If you can precede 'Pope John Paul' with 'From the people who brought you Mephisto and Speedball...', you know you've found something special. It's The Pope! Marvel's latest and greatest superhero! Watch as he teams up with Morbius and Doctor Strange to bring peace and sanctuary to the upper east side! That ring's not just for kissin' anymore....watch the Pope leave his SUPER RELIGIOUS FISTPRINT on all who oppose the HOLY WAY OF JUSTICE! Coming soon - the Pope, Cloak, and Dagger action figure 3-pack! With special, limited edition holographic Pope trading card! Soon to be a major motion picture starring Wesley Snipes as the holy but misguided hero to be, and Frank Langella as Marvel's newest hero supreme...The Pope!!!" |
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Post by brigante133 on Nov 7, 2005 18:53:20 GMT -5
that pope is looks like he is antagonizing someone. like some bad new york stereo type version of the pope. whos about to bitchslap a fool for cuttin him off in the line for snack pretzels. i wonder whod win in a fight, the pope or thor? now THAT is a story waiting to be told... NO Galactis and the pope....
I HUNGER!
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Post by Lantern Lad on Nov 7, 2005 20:51:03 GMT -5
Being personally agnostic with a Jewish wife... I don't care much about it as long as it's not bing thrown in my face.
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Post by dragonbat on Nov 7, 2005 21:56:23 GMT -5
How could you forget the most powerful jewish superhero/villain (depending on his meds, I guess): MagnetoI quit reading Marvel in the early 90s. At that point, it had been established that Magneto was in the camps, but not whether he was Jewish or Gypsy. Again, not one to be overtly religious. |
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Nov 7, 2005 22:37:57 GMT -5
How could you forget the most powerful jewish superhero/villain (depending on his meds, I guess): MagnetoI quit reading Marvel in the early 90s. At that point, it had been established that Magneto was in the camps, but not whether he was Jewish or Gypsy. Again, not one to be overtly religious. Back in the early 80s, he was fighting the X-men (including new recruit Kitty Pride). Having defeated them all, he saw a star of david necklace on Kitty and realized that he had attacked his own people during his war against humanity. This lead him (amongst other things) to become the good Magneto of the late 80s. |
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 1:59:43 GMT -5
WELL! Well... I was roaming the Liefeld boards, bored, and I saw a comment about Battlepope, about how it was totally blasphemy or whatever, and I have this idea in my mind, that basically, most Americans believe in God(s) and as I don't (i'm an athiest... give me some damn evidence!) it irritates me that people can take something so seriously.
Like people who say their favourite book is the Bible, and stuff like that... I'm not trying to be dismissive of religion, I'm just thinking... Why would you say something like that? I'm just curious is all.
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Post by starlord on Nov 8, 2005 5:28:02 GMT -5
Ok I am going to go out on a limb here with my views and hope I don't offend anyone.
I was raised in a Baptist household and had to go to church three times a week. I was never thrilled about it. I watched a lot of self proclaimed Christians spend their days stabbing each other (and ministers that they didn't like) in the back. It totally turned me off.
Then when I was seventeen my family was involved in a very nasty car accident and we lost my mother. I've been partially crippled with back problems ever since. It was at that moment that I decided there was no God.
Now that I am nearing fourty my views have changed some. You cannot stand in a delivery room and watch your own children be born and not come out of it believing that there isn't a higher power out there.
What hasn't changed is my idea that organized religion is very dangerous. I think more people have been killed through history because of organized religion and their views. I find there to be many more hypocrits (sp?) in the churches then out of them.
Again, these are just my opinions, but the God I was raised to believe in is not a mean God or a God that wants people to smile at each other and then wait for them to turn around so that we can stab them in the back. The God I grew up with believes in love, and caring and tenderness to all human beings.
I will never be a huge religious person, but I do think that the teachings of Jesus Christ (whether he is the son of God or one of the most famous profits of all time) are some of the most interesting reads. What's sad is that almost know one realy gets what he was saying...it's all about love folks. Love for your fellow man.
Well that was my honest two cents. If I have upset anyone I apologize. Just waxing philosophical.
Now if you all will join me around the camp-fire we will hold hands and sing Michael Row Your Boat Ashore. ;D
Sorry, needed a little humor.
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 5:59:58 GMT -5
All opinions are welcomed, and no ones going to shout you down for holding something close to your heart. I just think there are two types of religious people (no offense to everyone), we have the quiet, keep to themselves Christians, and the ones who try and convert you over the internet (  ). Religion should be something that is celebrated by those who take part in it, not something that should be forced upon someone... I think it was in Dogma (great film) where someone said that Catholics suffer thier religion, and don't celebrate it... If you believe in God(s) then celebrate them, don't belittle those who don't share the same belief... |
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Post by starlord on Nov 8, 2005 6:09:45 GMT -5
All opinions are welcomed, and no ones going to shout you down for holding something close to your heart. I just think there are two types of religious people (no offense to everyone), we have the quiet, keep to themselves Christians, and the ones who try and convert you over the internet ( ). Religion should be something that is celebrated by those who take part in it, not something that should be forced upon someone... I think it was in Dogma (great film) where someone said that Catholics suffer thier religion, and don't celebrate it... If you believe in God(s) then celebrate them, don't belittle those who don't share the same belief... Charlie, I think that's a very intelligent way of seeing it. I also think that part of what is wrong with our Country right now is the way religion or religious views are being forced into everyone's lives. The "this is the way it is, live with it or get out" concept. |
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 6:16:43 GMT -5
Yeah, and because a religious group is affiliated with an extremist group, they are the ones suffering... Racial tensions heighten and riots break out, just because one section of a group are killers.
I don't think that they can excuse their actions by saying they are dying for their god, because what kind of god would condone the killing of innocents?
Once again, apoligies to anyone who finds my POV offensive. Just speaking my mind, and trying to be as nonracist as possible.
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Post by monkeychapstick on Nov 8, 2005 8:22:22 GMT -5
*smiles*
would this an appropriate time to let all of you know that i hold a local minister's license in my denomination, and at the beginning of january will be going back to school to get my degree in biblical literature with the end of becoming a full-time pastor in about two or three years?
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Post by starlord on Nov 8, 2005 8:44:12 GMT -5
*smiles* would this an appropriate time to let all of you know that i hold a local minister's license in my denomination, and at the beginning of january will be going back to school to get my degree in biblical literature with the end of becoming a full-time pastor in about two or three years? Wow, congratulations! I do think that's great. Please realize that my opinions are just mine and that I don't ever mean that what I think generaly means it's true for every person. How was that. Did I back peddle enough? LOL ;D |
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Post by dragonbat on Nov 8, 2005 9:07:14 GMT -5
I quit reading Marvel in the early 90s. At that point, it had been established that Magneto was in the camps, but not whether he was Jewish or Gypsy. Again, not one to be overtly religious. Back in the early 80s, he was fighting the X-men (including new recruit Kitty Pride). Having defeated them all, he saw a star of david necklace on Kitty and realized that he had attacked his own people during his war against humanity. This lead him (amongst other things) to become the good Magneto of the late 80s. I think I remember the issue. Somewhere in the 150s? It wasn't the necklace. It was the realization that he might have killed a child in his war for mutant supremacy. |
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Post by monkeychapstick on Nov 8, 2005 9:18:43 GMT -5
thanks starlord. no need to back peddle. my door is always open to intelligent dialog when it comes to faith, religion, and entertainment. you're talking to a guy who uses spider-man, the matrix, and star wars to teach the message of the scriptures to teens and young adults. i'm cool... right?  |
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Post by brigante133 on Nov 8, 2005 10:17:06 GMT -5
*smiles* would this an appropriate time to let all of you know that i hold a local minister's license in my denomination, and at the beginning of january will be going back to school to get my degree in biblical literature with the end of becoming a full-time pastor in about two or three years? hmmm that would explain the pastor m name. my idea about religion in comics is this, unless they are doing crossovers and aquaman's patchin up an arch or something, there is no real need to push it into the story with religious imagery and such, it seems like a ploy and a cheap way out of making an "important" story. to me kingdom come (as much as i loved it and own it and all) came off as a little self righteous and the writer only had to put in verses to make it seem epic. i might as well get this outta the way, i too am agnostic (we lanterns think alike indeed) an in my own somewhat insensitve sardonic point of view say this, Lets just keep the fairy tales in their own books eh? now I should prepare for the backlash |
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Post by monkeychapstick on Nov 8, 2005 10:30:23 GMT -5
no one has any right to force a religion or a way of thinking down anyone's throat. obtuse use of religious imagery has always been en vogue if one is trying to come off as righteous or epic, that's just the nature of storytelling for some. i think faith, religion, denomination, and belief is a matter of an educated and open-minded personal quest for truth based on each individual person. however, if someone were to ask me to tell them about what i believe, i am not going to shy away from that opportunity to minister to them in the way that i have felt called to do. i hope i am making some sort of sense and not coming off too strongly.
*chuckles*
i know, the name thing. think of it as a crisis of inifinte screen names... ;D
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 10:55:34 GMT -5
no one has any right to force a religion or a way of thinking down anyone's throat. obtuse use of religious imagery has always been en vogue if one is trying to come off as righteous or epic, that's just the nature of storytelling for some. i think faith, religion, denomination, and belief is a matter of an educated and open-minded personal quest for truth based on each individual person. however, if someone were to ask me to tell them about what i believe, i am not going to shy away from that opportunity to minister to them in the way that i have felt called to do. i hope i am making some sort of sense and not coming off too strongly. *chuckles* i know, the name thing. think of it as a crisis of inifinte screen names... ;D I like this guy! Like we said before, we were just discussing it, not pointing out that certain people have certain views, and then having a go at them because of it... |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Nov 8, 2005 11:15:48 GMT -5
I agree with Starlord that organized religion is dangerous, or can be dangerous. More people have died in the name of God and what they believe to be right than all diseases ever.
My belief is there is something, somewhere... does any religion have it right? No, I don't think so, nor do I believe they ever will. I think the only way to know is when you die & go wherever it is that you go. I believe that is when all truths are revealed... ooh that sounded a little holier than thou, didn't it?
It's simple, be a good person and to quote one of my favorite bands (surprisingly I've been using this this as my signature line for about a week now):
Live a life you love
Use a God you trust
and don't take it all too seriously.
I could go on & on about the subject, because I am very outspoken when it comes to the hypocritical ways of some people within organized religion (because I think to lump ALL people that believe in organized religion is dangerous as well). I should know because every member of my family that belong to an organized religion are absolute a-holes.
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 11:20:01 GMT -5
I know of the family who live down the road from my house, who, for now, we'll call "The Dallows", who generally belittle everyone who they see, spout pieces of the bible to people who have no need to hear it, and generally are quite horrible people (they watched my next door neighbours house burn down! wtf?!), so this is one of the things that has shaped my point of view of organised religion (they live next to a compound with their church in...) and how they percieve others... I don't know... But they just generally are quite nasty people (not because they believe in a God! don't get the wrong idea!) who have no time for people who dont share their views...
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Post by starlord on Nov 8, 2005 11:22:07 GMT -5
Charlie's right and this has been a fascinating discussion in my opinion. I think what you are doing is wonderful and I think there are a lot of individual's who are confident in their faith that I personally find very beautiful.
And yes Pastor M I think you're cool. But really is depends more on your opinion of Green Arrow then it does on religion. ;D
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 11:24:50 GMT -5
Charlie's right and this has been a fascinating discussion in my opinion. I think what you are doing is wonderful and I think there are a lot of individual's who are confident in their faith that I personally find very beautiful. And yes Pastor M I think you're cool. But really is depends more on your opinion of Green Arrow then it does on religion. ;D My thoughts exactly. Oh wait, what? Oh... Yup. My thoughts. Exactly. Green Arrow. Fantastic. Exactly... Thoughts? |
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Post by starlord on Nov 8, 2005 11:51:50 GMT -5
So I guess the only question left now is...who's going to start the "Politics Post" |
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Post by HoM on Nov 8, 2005 11:54:22 GMT -5
Well I guess I'll get round to it in the next couple of days then...
Green Arrow.
Great.
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). Religion should be something that is celebrated by those who take part in it, not something that should be forced upon someone...