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Post by chris on Jun 30, 2006 21:26:39 GMT -5
Well, basically Ramon has just been calling people hacks.
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Post by goldk on Jun 30, 2006 21:58:56 GMT -5
Holey Moley those references are amazing! Anybody remember the Rick Buckler fiasco and what Art Adams was told to do at marvel! I have to say my Batman comes from a little bit Adams and a little bit Marshall Rogers.
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Post by brigante133 on Jun 30, 2006 23:24:00 GMT -5
i have not been calling everyone a hack, i have been saying that I don't particularly like Mike Turners style and I don't see how others can when it looks like a minor upgrade from Rob Liefeld whos work i also don't care for.
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Post by artteach on Jul 1, 2006 0:09:44 GMT -5
Wow, I'm pretty crushed on Greg Land. I'll have to look at them closer. If he grids them out, he could get pretty close to the same proportions. He can't trace a whole comic. He must have some skill in there.
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Post by Brandon on Jul 1, 2006 1:11:33 GMT -5
I have no the guy has skills, as he was really starting to hit his stride at DC, then the Crossgen stuff was interesting but I honestly haven't done anything other than glance at it. I do know that what he's done at Marvel just seems really uninspired, made all the more diappointing by the direct overworking of photos.
Using photos as reference is one thing, even working over them depending on what you are doing and how forthcoming you are with that info (heck, I've slapped filtered photos on half my pics here as backgrounds), but the guy has talent and he's a pro, as in he gets paid well to make the effort, so it just seems like lazy and hackworthy work on his part.
And why is Marvel trying to make the art in their books look like Heavy Metal from 20 years ago? Pfeh.
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Post by goldk on Jul 1, 2006 7:32:59 GMT -5
...EDIT ... And why is Marvel trying to make the art in their books look like Heavy Metal from 20 years ago? Pfeh. I've noticed that too. Hmmmm I have a friend who is taking some samples to the Con today. He was told a few years ago that his backgrounds were weak and he needed to work on his figure drawing. I said what! Nobody does backgrounds! Half of Infinite Crisis was photo shop effects...and figures....two words. Mcdaniels. I said apparently after you get a contract you can slack off and do whatever you want. |
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Post by chris on Jul 1, 2006 8:48:10 GMT -5
i have not been calling everyone a hack, i have been saying that I don't particularly like Mike Turners style and I don't see how others can when it looks like a minor upgrade from Rob Liefeld whos work i also don't care for. Step?Above? Liefeild? You are way off. |
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Post by artteach on Jul 1, 2006 9:59:17 GMT -5
In defense of Greg Land (and Bryan Hitch and the rest of the Photoreference group) you can get pretty close to the figures dimensions without really trying.  I'm not anywhere near the pros and my final WW lines up pretty well with the original image I looked at. It is not perfect, but I bet if I was a better artist I would end up with images that where pretty spot with the photo reference. So maybe he is not tracing, he could just be spot on in his measurement technique. |
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Post by artteach on Jul 1, 2006 10:00:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry I try to look for the best in people. Even Rob Liefield had an energy to his drawings and has gotten much, much better in recent years.
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Post by HoM on Jul 1, 2006 10:02:42 GMT -5
Ok, I can see where you're coming from, but if the recent examples of his art are him getting much MUCH better... My God. Just... I don't like his art is all...
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Post by artteach on Jul 1, 2006 10:37:18 GMT -5
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Post by HoM on Jul 1, 2006 12:12:37 GMT -5
Yes, but his poses are all the same! It's still terrible that a near miniscule talent as him gets jobs and has such a fan following that he does!
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Post by Brandon on Jul 1, 2006 12:56:51 GMT -5
I'm sorry I try to look for the best in people. Even Rob Liefield had an energy to his drawings and has gotten much, much better in recent years. I don't think anyone doubts your sincerity here. And I haven't ever really seen Bryan Hitch show up on any swipe files so the guys might really be just that good. And of course it is a fine line on what is photo-referencing and what is pretty much a swipe. From Alex Ross's use of models to Gene Colan polaroiding Jack Palance off of TV for Tomb Dracula reference to Kirby's use of photo in some of his FF backgrounds, it's a little subjective. But if I'm putting down 3 bucks per book, I'd rather see someone's actual craft and not tracing. Repeated and exact matches in Land's artwork only says to me that his lightbox is getting a workout. And I'd much rather see his actual artwork. In Liefeld's case it's pretty inexcusable other than the fact that he was very young when he broke into the industry, but he not only worked off of photos but other artist's work, from character poses to entire page layouts. I almost hate to say it, but again, I'd rather just see his artwork. |
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Post by leadslinger on Jul 1, 2006 13:15:35 GMT -5
In my opinion Adams is the best of the group mentioned. But let us not forget other Artist who did awesome Batman work :
1. Jim Aparo- His Brave and the Bold run is unparalleled
2. David Mazzuchelli- Year one-Perfection
3. Michael Golden- His occasional story is great to look at
4. Tim Sale- yea sometimes it looks weird but hey sometimes it's nice
5. Alan Davis- honorable mention
Kevin
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Post by HoM on Jul 1, 2006 13:52:47 GMT -5
Alan Davis' art grew on me so much because when I first saw it I wasn't that impressed, but his original X-Men run (The Twelve, that stuff) was so good! Then I saw his Captain Britain stuff, then Year Two then his NEW x-men stuff... So good.
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