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Post by capeandcowl on Jun 11, 2008 21:56:44 GMT -5
Let us know what you think!
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Post by HoM on Jun 12, 2008 7:38:38 GMT -5
There sure was a lot going on here! A lot of big story beats pushing the tale along, and I wish that it was longer! Moments seemed stilted (the City Hall siege should have been massive. Two-Face vs Ninjas!), though I did enjoy the constant coming back to Gordon. He is, in a way, Batman's anchor in the world of crime fighting, just as Alfred, Tim and Dick are his anchor to his humanity. I liked the circular narrative, with Batman and Talia parting ways twice (three times, you could say) in the story, and Bruce never looking back. Though wasn't it in poor taste considering Vicki? That didn't bother me too much though.
And those final four scenes. Very tense. The literary parallels didn't allude me, obviously, and that lightning strike? I like that kind of stuff. Gordon changed his tune drastically when he arrived on the scene, didn't he? Poor Talia. That's going to... That's going to hurt. And Dick... Ok. I wonder how this is going to synch up with Nightwing #26?
A tight issue in parts, and a bit loose in others. Mickey Fynn's article was a nice touch, and Bullock's line to the press "Rubber bullets... Honest." made me chuckle.
So... What now?
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sarpedon
New Member
Still trying to convince my wife how Cool Green Lantern is
Posts: 12
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Post by sarpedon on Jun 12, 2008 9:17:52 GMT -5
Well that was one hell of a roller coster... Definetly worth the wait I am excited to see what the fall out from this is going to be.
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Post by capeandcowl on Jun 12, 2008 10:23:43 GMT -5
There sure was a lot going on here! A lot of big story beats pushing the tale along, and I wish that it was longer! Moments seemed stilted (the City Hall siege should have been massive. Two-Face vs Ninjas!) I had actually struggled with the city hall scene. I actually have the entire battle written out, including a fairly choice bit where Two Face cuts a swath through several leaguers before Batman shows up. The problem, I felt, was that while the scene was huge in nature, it felt it like bogged the story down. I was trying to push the story forward by dealing essentially with four people - Batman, Ra's, Talia and Gordon. In the middle of that I had written his massive battle scene that seemed, with how the rest of the story was paced, somewhat out of place. I still don't know if that was the right choice or not for this story. But have no fear, the scene will appear in Batman #32 as we start to deal with the fallout of recent events. As an aside, I was similarly torn about the final battle between Batman and Ra's. Again, I had written the entire scene, including their final, fatal, fall from the walkway on the Dam. But to me, after reading it, it seemed like I was showing too much. It seemed much more appealing to see them start the fight, and then jump forward and see where it ended, leaving us with something of a question mark. How did they fall? Why? Again, I remain unsure if it worked better than the original fight scene I wrote, but that's the choice I made. Well exactly, Charlie. Gordon, to me, is the dose of reality in Batman's insane world. Batman's immediate circle - Alfred, Tim and Dick are kind of like enablers. They know Bruce's obsessions are not healthy and can be self destructive, but they often don't do anything about it. They try to manage and help him, but never try to stop him. Gordon is a realist and he has no problem looking at Batman said "hold the phone, this is insane!" As for Vicki..well she is in a coma under the ocean with Aquaman, so what she doesn't know won't hurt her! LOL. More seriously, I think Talia is just so much like Bruce - just as obsessed in her own way, just as dangerous, just as smart - that she is the THE woman for Bruce. Of course, being so much like him and being so devoted to her father is what creates the conflict in their relationship. Vicki, compared to Bruce Wayne, is a weaker personality. So he dominates the relationship. Talia stands as an equal with Bruce. I think a woman like that is hard for Bruce to resist, even if he knows she's on the wrong side. All I will say about Nightwing at this point is that it is worth noting when Dick watches the message from Bruce. It's more than a day after Batman dies. What happens with Dick from the moment of Bruce Wayne's death to when he ends up in the cave is being handled by Ellen. ha. I'm glad you picked up on that What next? Batman is dead. Gotham is in ruins. Two-Face, the Joker and Black Mask are all on the loose.
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Post by David on Jun 12, 2008 17:56:57 GMT -5
Fantastic, emotional, climactic issue! There was a building, ominous tension throughout that careened towards an ending I knew was coming--- but was still shocked to see it happen! Personally, I thought you made all the right decisions, Grant. Big fight scenes are fine in their context, but this issue wasn't about fighting, it was about destiny and consequence. I'm sure the City Hall scene would have been cool, but it wasn't what I was reading this issue for...! For the second time this month at the DC2, I am reminded of Joss Whedon--- Batman and Ra's final clash reminded me of the final scene of Angel's last episode (where all the surviving characters leap into a battle against impossible odds--- and then the series ends ); nothing beats the scene the imagination creates at that point! Loved the scene with Dick and his "conversation" with Bruce. Can't wait to see where that goes from here! Also, nice comeuppance for Talia--- but I hope she survives the Joker's sinister ministrations! Though we see the death of Batman in this issue, I can't help but feel that this is the beginning of an exciting new era in the Bat-books. You can consider me along for the ride.
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Post by starlord on Jun 14, 2008 9:28:28 GMT -5
What an excellent conclusion to this event. I think you pulled it off perfectly as well. The story was told the best way possible and all the elements that you had created (and the one's I threw at you ) were wrapped up perfectly. It's been a real pleasure working with Grant. His analogy of working together was of a musical sort, mine is more theater. Nothing is more fun than getting into a scene and ad-libbing to see where the scene goes, trusting your partner to feel the vibe and "go with it". That has been Grant, all the way! Have to admit, though, I'm very scared for Talia at this point. *shudder*. I can't wait to see where that goes. 5 stars and an awesome cover to boot! Bravo!
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Susan Hillwig
Staff
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
Posts: 1,612
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Post by Susan Hillwig on Jun 19, 2008 23:24:50 GMT -5
"Batman: R.I.P." Had to say it! ;D
Seriously, I'm consciously avoiding that particular event in DCU because I know the chances of them actually killing their cash cow are slim to none...but in DC2, this sort of thing could very well become status quo, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I love the notion that I really don't know if Bruce survived that fight with Ra's (and I thought you NOT showing it was the best decision...let each of us imagine it in our own way!).
No matter what, though, this was a slam-bang ending to this multi-part story. I loved how you managed to work in so many little things from throughout Batman's history, from the shout-out for B:TAS (Simon "The Gray Ghost" Trent's talent agency) to one of my favorite lines from "The Dark Knight Returns" ("Rubber bullets. Honest.") and even invoking the current movie series with Ra's wanting to cleanse the city, all the while Joker and Two-Face are tearing it apart.
Five stars, my friend...now you just have to find a way to top it next month!
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Post by goldk on Jun 21, 2008 18:14:50 GMT -5
Oh. My. God. Brilliant.
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Quester
Staff
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Jun 23, 2008 14:26:10 GMT -5
You really can write Batman. And I dont just mean the character I mean the whole mythos. The city itself. You really own these stories. Brilliant, brilliant work. Im hoping your doing alot more. And the covers are unbelievably iconic and gothic and defenitevly Batman for this arc. Brilliant story arc over all. And what an ending. With all the major players on the loose Dick really has his work cut out for him eh? What I really wanna know is...same costume or a mix of Batman and Nighwing? Im just not sure how comfortably Dick would become Bats entirely.
Now Im gonna read Nightwing which I haven't done in a long time.
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Post by ckills on Jun 27, 2008 11:06:35 GMT -5
My first thought was that this was very Sherlock Holmes vs Prof. James Moriarty, if I recall correctly they both went off a waterfall in the end... this is still an excellent story. Nice to see Batman both get the job done yet leave Dick the message behind, and rather than misunderstangs of character that have been portrayed before really understand the other part of the famous (...and former) well-oiled machine. It has a perfect balance.
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Susan Hillwig
Staff
I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested.
Posts: 1,612
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Post by Susan Hillwig on Jul 6, 2008 22:12:26 GMT -5
My husband mentioned the Holmes/Moriarty thing after I described this issue to him, but the allusion went right past me when I read this. How I missed it, I'll never know.
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Post by timdrake on Jul 26, 2008 18:42:17 GMT -5
Wow. It's been an interesting crash course in DC2 Batman that I've missed over the past two years, and I've gotta say, I'm very impressed with the environment Grant and Brian have crafted in Gotham. Not only has it been a great ongoing story (especially with the evolution of a certain future boy wonder ), but this particular story's shocking ending was handled very well. I haven't caught myself really getting immersed in a story as much as I did with the last couple issues in a while. Bruce leaving the cave knowing that he probably wouldn't return, the realization that he had died, and finally Dick watching the tape...this just had an epic feel to it that didn't feel forced. After reading so much Batman in a day I'll most likely wait until some other day this week to read the newer issues following the mythos, which I'm excited to read for obvious reasons, but I don't have a doubt in my mind that the ongoing saga of Batman, which is taking a turn into uncharted territory, is in good hands. Thanks for bringing some amazing issues for me to come back to, I couldn't have asked for more from the introduction of Tim Drake and the heroic exit of Bruce Wayne.
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RocketeerZ
Staff
Don't look at me, it was broken when I got here.
Posts: 379
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Post by RocketeerZ on Aug 12, 2008 12:23:30 GMT -5
Dead?
DEAD?
Wow.
No body... no death? I don;t know what's planned, but it seems we have a new Batman for the foreseeable future.
This entire storyline was very well done. The back and forth between here and 'Tec was excellent. You and Brian deserve a standing ovation.
The Joker was well handled here. His nastiness and psychosis were dead on.
Great job. Honestly, a really really great job.
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Post by David on Oct 5, 2009 18:01:06 GMT -5
[Twoface, I deleted your original post because you posted within the body of the issue. Please follow the posted link to leave feedback in the letter column. Thanks!]You sould have put into detail the battle between Batman and Ra's I think the writer intentionally left out that climactic battle, as to further evoke Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "Final Solution" in which we never actually see Holmes and his nemesis Moriarty go over Reichenbach Falls, but hear about it second hand (and, of course, later learn that Holmes survived the confrontation). Or maybe he just forgot. But I'm betting on the former
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Post by Alex on Oct 5, 2009 18:31:25 GMT -5
Ummmm.... No official comment from the Bat-group
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Post by HoM on Oct 5, 2009 18:47:33 GMT -5
Ummmm.... No official comment from the Bat-group Well, there's nothing to comment on. I don't see a question ;D
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Post by Alex on Oct 5, 2009 19:08:53 GMT -5
Charlie, you just lost your place in line to be perfect
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Post by HoM on Oct 6, 2009 6:23:57 GMT -5
I... I don't understand, Alex. I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
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SympleSymon
Staff
New writer for BATMAN - Returning Soon!
Posts: 97
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Post by SympleSymon on Dec 16, 2009 11:27:34 GMT -5
There's a lot of that going around, Charlie...
Anyways! Fantastic conclusion to an amazing arc! Everything just gelled perfectly, especially the two epilogues! They all leave a lot open for future fallout!
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