|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 18, 2006 15:26:42 GMT -5
Let us know what you think!
|
|
|
|
Post by HoM on Apr 19, 2006 6:19:13 GMT -5
This is one of the best Batman stories on the site. I'm not just saying that because Ramon does all my covers, but because he get's inside the Dark Knight's head. He knows what makes him tick and he does it well. This is how Batman would be, not how he should be, because the character is open to interpritation, so however you think Batman is, he will be, but if Batman lived in a city where crime was so high, were there were urban vigilante's and themed villains, this is how he would be. Gritty, down to Earth, and high on cocaine. Wait, scratch that. This guy would be dirty, efficient, and wouldn't care what it took to take down the crooks, and I think Ramon has captured the spirit of Batman perfectly in a bottle. A bottle of pure comic genius...
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 19, 2006 7:37:31 GMT -5
I really had to step away from this issue before I could enjoy it.
Ramon's interpretation of Batman is, unsurprisingly, very Milleresque (which, for the most part, isn't really even DCU continuity) and so not for general public consumption; meaning it won't appeal to most fans of the character. There's gritty and then there's dirt clogged pores that'll never be clean. For me, I still prefer my comic-reads to be escapist fun (I have no problem with dark, dark is fine, but morose is another story).
The trend of hyper-violence in recent issues on the DC2 is a bit worrisome, and may even be reflective of what readers are reacting against in creators of comics today, but, and despite the Milleresque overtones, Ramon steers (only just) clear of this here. Nowhere is he snapping necks of policemen or thugs, declaring that he is "the goddamn Batman" to a frightened 10 year old he's kidnapped, moments after that child just witnessed the brutal murder of his parents. But he does blow some stuff up and get medieval on some asses!
I did enjoy this issue. It gives us a Batman perhaps more vulnerable than we've seen before, not so much the dark god of justice, but a man trying to exorcise the demons of Gotham's collective night terrors. But it should also stand out as a warning of what Batman is in danger of becomming: a ruthless urban vigilante for whom the ends always justify the means.
And that is a Batman I don't want to read about.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on Apr 19, 2006 16:09:01 GMT -5
first of all, i wanna thank Scott for letting us use that awesome batman drawing for the cover. for some reason i think people think i don't like him, tis not the case.
second, please understand i don't fancy myself much of a writer. When the idea was thrown out that i write something it wasn't because i had written anything before and I really do consider this my first "real" fan fic. this is the first that i have done that has a real story with a big name character and I wanted to add elements of batman in it that I liked. so what did I do? i made it the gritty batman. When batman is with robin I understand making him lighter and it not being as gritty, and i am a big fan of that batman. When he is with Superman or the League he should be more stand offish and quiet, and I am a big fan of that batman. BUT when he is alone, by himself, I see him as a more tragic hero. The guy has loses everyone he gets attached to and he's not the same batman just like no person is the same at work or school as they are when they are at home with family. It's not the same batman every single time, if it was it wouldn't seem right to me. That said, this is not the Batman that is going to be in the whole arc. I want him to change at some point and when it comes, I think it'll be clear but I don't want it to be an easy change.
Oh, and I plan on using the "im the goddamn batman" line.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 19, 2006 16:12:53 GMT -5
I think i was awesome.
|
|
|
|
Post by HoM on Apr 19, 2006 16:51:15 GMT -5
we all think you are awesome... |
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on Apr 19, 2006 16:51:43 GMT -5
you were?
|
|
|
|
Post by HoM on Apr 19, 2006 17:09:47 GMT -5
he was.
|
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 19, 2006 18:50:35 GMT -5
;D Sorry it should say it was awesome. Doesn't matter though cause its true either way  I actually had more to say than just that anyways. Yes it is Milleresque and no it is not surprising. I think this is great especially cause of the big event coming up aty the end of the year in the Bat titles. I like the idea of him being pretty dark right now and I agree with Ramon's reasoning for it. I think there is a clear porpose for it so far that Bruce is losing control in this arc. He is even questioning himself in the story. As far as the Frank Mller thing I think that All- Star Batman would be taken much differently if he had done the art himself. It seems almost like a prequal to DKR and TDKSA. I think Jim Lee is my favorite artist ever but not the right guy for Millers story telling style. For the record I only bought the first two issues of All Star Batman and quite reading. But really imagine if Miller had drawn it. |
|
|
|
Post by starlord on Apr 19, 2006 18:54:06 GMT -5
The great thing about any art form is that it's all subjective. What one person finds incredibly entertaining can be absolutely boring for another. The fact that everyone has a chance to bring their own visions to this site is no where more apparent then right here.
Is this my Batman? Not really. Is this Ramon's? Yep! And he showed him to us in a very honest and creative way.
You get my pick for issue of the week (although there may be a tie for me...still waiting) Not because I thought this was the best Batman story I've read on here, but because I saw a great character used in a very unique way. Done by a writer who gave us his vision in its most purest form. Bravo!
|
|
|
|
Post by Lantern Lad on Apr 19, 2006 18:57:13 GMT -5
Wow... This was intense. I agree with David on many points. - Serious Frank Miller overtones.
- Batman shouldn't be sucking down pain pills
- Batman wouldn't leave anyone trapped in a burning basement.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think there's some kind of hidden meaning in all of this that will surface within the stories second act. Gordon knows this isn't how Batman would act. Batman became more violent after the 'death' of Jason Todd and remained that way until a new Robin was found. Could this be the groundwork for something else? Is there the possibility of a new Robin? Regardless I stick with the fact that Batman shouldn't be sucking down pain pills... unless their extra-strength Motrin or something. Otherwise, it's too remeniscent of the Venom arc from Legends of the Dark Knight. And please tell me you're kidding about the "I'm the Goddamn Batman!" line... I know you'll probably disagree with me here, but Frank Miller is way past his prime. Year One was great, DKR was WONDERFUL... the rest of his Batman, let's just say he peaked in the 80's. |
|
|
|
Post by chris on Apr 19, 2006 19:09:11 GMT -5
He didn't leave them in the basement, he pulls them out and hits them in the throat.
|
|
|
|
Post by starlord on Apr 19, 2006 19:14:15 GMT -5
although I cringed at this too, I'm holding that it may be used toungue in cheek, and there fore be very amusing.
|
|
|
|
Post by starlord on Apr 19, 2006 19:17:32 GMT -5
He didn't leave them in the basement, he pulls them out and hits them in the throat. okay, but would he have set them on fire in the first place? If I had two personal issue's with the story it was the fire and the pills. It's where my eyes did that cartoon bulge thing. But it also kept me reading. |
|
|
|
Post by Lantern Lad on Apr 19, 2006 19:31:15 GMT -5
He didn't leave them in the basement, he pulls them out and hits them in the throat. okay, but would he have set them on fire in the first place? If I had two personal issue's with the story it was the fire and the pills. It's where my eyes did that cartoon bulge thing. But it also kept me reading. Exactly. Batman wouldn't have set them on fire and what was the point of hitting men that are already incapacitated in the throat? They werealready ablaze... did he do it just to put them out of their misery? But, yeah... it kept me reading too. Oh and I forgot to mention, nice inclusion of the Reaper. Maybe we can get the Phantasm to make an appearance! |
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on Apr 19, 2006 23:42:55 GMT -5
Oh... well my logic for the burning building was that he would set them on fire to get out before things got worse for him. Add to that the guys on the upper floor were going to get away, he had to leave. Then i thought, "uh oh, I left those guys in a burning basement"... hell, better go back or I am gonna hear about leaving the guys in the basement. He hits the first guy in the throat, the rest were just knocked down I think it says. If I knew anything about phantasm I'd love to, but um... I never even saw the cartoon. This is going to be a reaper story arc though, so I wouldnt expect much in the way of cameos (I am no charlie, I couldn't pull it off  ). the pills? well if you got beat up on a daily basis, you would want something to ease the pain too no? As for the Miller overtones... Who is Miller, and why do you keep saying that?  |
|
|
|
Post by batarang on Apr 20, 2006 23:20:48 GMT -5
Well, well, now we have a Batman who makes huge mistakes, is addicted to painkillers and seems to be questioning everything he is and does. Very dark stuff, and very believably written. I don't mind Batman all dark and tough but there's something in this story that somehow screams out to me.
Batman misses Robin.
This man has carried incredible burdens of responsibility and guilt no man should ever have to shoulder. Yet he chose to wear a black costume and take on the very worst of Gotham's underworld by himself! He actually is obssessed (and maybe more than a little nuts) since no normal person reacts to personal tragedy by becoming a vigilante and trying to stop all his city's crime. Bruce was very much a lonely soul.
Until meeting/ taking in Dick Grayson. Suddenly he has a partner in his war. But just as importantly, he now has a son who knows the pain of survivor's guilt just as well as he does. I love the reference in this story to Robin's costume. Why not make it black and stealthy as well? To provide a target is a logical answer, and Bruce is so confident in his own abilities that he couldn't believe Dick would ever be hurt.
And then it happens. So Bruce, again crushed with guilt, sends Dick away. So his hold on confidence and sanity would slip. Now he's lost his son, like he lost his parents all those years ago. I could definitely believe Bruce would spiral into depression and self-doubt , even recklessness. Even his ally Gordon is mistrusting him. I guess you can tell I enjoyed this story and see that Bruce is actually human with real human emotions and real human flaws.
Except let's not keep him there forever, okay?
|
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on Apr 21, 2006 0:15:44 GMT -5
That's the point of the story batarang. ;D That's all I am going to reveal about the rest of what happens in this arc. Oh, I will also say this, next issue will get darker before it gets lighter, we'll see way more Reaper, Gordon wakes up, and Batman is um... he's the goddamn Batman!!  |
|
|
|
Post by tlbauer on Apr 24, 2006 6:14:41 GMT -5
Very interesting story. I'm intrigued to see where you are taking this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Romans Empire on Apr 26, 2006 1:49:11 GMT -5
Wow. I read parts of this story awhile back. This took a different turn then I expected. Where's the 'Fairy Tale'?
A lot of this has already been said so I won't repeat the obvious Miller influences and the grittiness of the story.
I think its hard to add something to a character like Batman or Superman and give it a fresh spin. The fine line is making it fresh but keep the character in character. I think Ramon dangled over this line but never fell.
This was a well written story by a very talented writer. I look forward to the next issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on Apr 27, 2006 22:24:55 GMT -5
haha. i missed this post.
weeeellll...
to clarify the "fairy tale" Mr. Elbe is alluding to is the original story I was planning to do in this detective comics arc in which I would take snow white white characters and well... make them pimps and gangsters. It was dark, angry, and vulgar so I told David and Ellen i would save them the editting time and skip that story. If you thought i had a lot of drugs and violence in this, you have no idea how gritty the other one was, you could sand an oak tree to a toothpick with the damn thing. Needless to say, i skipped and did this one instead.
|
|
|
|
Post by darkknightdetec on May 25, 2006 14:16:22 GMT -5
I know I'm a little late, but great job! Your writing is excellent, and you seem to really understand Batman. Nice little mystery going on too. All in all, great job!
|
|
|
|
Post by brigante133 on May 25, 2006 19:55:48 GMT -5
thanks, i consider this one my "first" fan fiction because its the first issue i wrote all by myself for that long. i think it gets a lot better because it was not as rushed and we spent a lot more time editting it. glad you liked it.
|
|
|
|
Post by darkknightdetec on May 25, 2006 21:12:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I just did my first fanfic too. Detective Comics #3-5. But anyway, I'll definately read part 2 when I get the chance.
|
|
). the pills? well if you got beat up on a daily basis, you would want something to ease the pain too no? 
