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Post by Crow on Aug 29, 2007 22:16:50 GMT -5
Tell us what you think!
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Post by HoM on Sept 5, 2007 4:36:26 GMT -5
Ooo I didn't like this. It was... Oh, it was brutal. Don't get the wrong idea, it was amazingly well written Jay, but... Yikes! I mean... Ouch... And then she... Ooo. Yikes. I thought the treatment of Diana by Ares was a bit... Iffy. But the council of Gods that appeared was very awesome, you could feel the power behind each of them. Ares has become less the manipulator from his appearances earlier in the series and more of a bastard though, I see! Ha, I didn't expect the bait and switch you pulled. Very cool. All in all, a very strong issue. Good work, my friend! Oh, and I like the subplots you've started, and the supporting cast is very cool
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Post by lissilambe on Sept 5, 2007 11:31:36 GMT -5
I didn't care for this story either. I did think the writing was good, but the story itself left a lot to be desired. I think the thing that bothered me the most was the time-lag. Two...was it three...weeks by the end of the book, and she's missing and captured and tortured? That just seems wrong to me on so many levels. She herself unable to escape before then? Her friends and allies not going about trying to find and rescue her?
And for some reason, the U.S. airstrikes bit also bugged me, don't know why. Can't quite formulate it into words. But then, I've not been overly happy with all the political stuff that's done in the DC2 (one of the big turnoffs for me in the recent Crisis really), so I'm sure it's wrapped up in that for me. Personally, except in a few books where it really belongs (and even there, kept to a subtle minimum) I'm not one that cares much for the affairs of nations in my super-heroes as a regular thing.
I did like the notion of Ares hiding as Vandal Savage's son. Nice twist. Thought it does bring up the notion of yet ANOTHER force that should be interfering and keep things from dragging out two/three weeks, Vandal himself. I can't imagine him as the type who likes his name being dragged through the mud by a pretender.
The Council of Gods was handled well, I did like that. I enjoyed each personality handled as well as it was.
Overall, Diana comes off very weak in this issue, and too many issues I have with teh story kept me from liking it like I think I should have.
Take care Don
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Post by HoM on Sept 5, 2007 11:33:26 GMT -5
Thought it does bring up the notion of yet ANOTHER force that should be interfering and keep things from dragging out two/three weeks, Vandal himself. I can't imagine him as the type who likes his name being dragged through the mud by a pretender. Haha! Jay! I want you to check that PM I sent you, and then read that bit of feedback, ok?
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Post by lissilambe on Sept 5, 2007 12:01:52 GMT -5
Now I think I'm worried. Take care Don
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 6, 2007 0:05:49 GMT -5
The issue leads up to a 5 part arc which will shake WW to the core. Diana is meant to be weak in the issue... so if you got that impression.. goal accomplished.
Next issue is the Annual and will explain some things.
all the best, J.
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Post by starlord on Sept 6, 2007 6:33:27 GMT -5
This had some good moments in it and a great twist! It was very well written, and I'm intrigued to see where exactly this is going to go at this point. Good job
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Post by Crow on Sept 8, 2007 9:27:28 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this issue. Having worked with you, I know that you had to deal with a lot of rewrites due to keeping continuity and harmony going between other titles, and so that in itself amazes me, because you knocked out a great story after pretty much going back to drawing board. You're very talented, very talented indeed.
What I really liked, and this is piggybacking Charlie's comments, is that you've kept a healthy supporting cast for Diana that isn't just greek characters or superheroes.
I really loved when I found out that Savage wasn't a Savage at all (no pun intended), but Ares, god of war! Great plot twist, though bad for Diana.
Though I didn't enjoy Diana's capture (she got the crap beat out of her!) I did like what you did there, because you introduced, in my eyes, something not seen in comics all of the time: a gritty realism. In real life situations, things don't always happen quick. How many times have the big bad USA had to wait for weeks, months, or years to get hostages back from so-called weakers enemy nations? And powerful as Diana is, Ares is far more powerful. If Ares can prevent the other Olympians from saving Diana from her situation, then I doubt the other superheroes, who have no idea where she is, where she got captured, and have no idea how to find her, can get to her in a few weeks time. The good part to remember though is that she is Wonder Woman, and she will get out of the situation: how, though, is the right question though.
Like Jay said, the upcoming arc will be a whole new set of problems for Diana, and it will definitely change her in more ways than one!
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 8, 2007 14:45:29 GMT -5
well the Savage stuff was written months ago.. when John asked me to co-write the Global Guardians with him. Then he backed out and I still had my Wonder Woman tie in story... so I decided to end it creatively as best I knew how..
Sorry if it didn't leave a good impression..
Trust me.. the events coming will be grand..
thank you for sticking w/ me though.
all the best, Z.
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Post by David on Sept 13, 2007 6:51:17 GMT -5
I am very sorry and almost embarrassed to be disappointed by this issue, because it has been well-received, and becaused, like the issue before it, I wanted to like it. But it is just off... In addition to the problems I pointed out in Issue #18's lettercol, this issue suffers not only from a lack of resolution, but a shameful debasement of the main character. This is not what Wonder Woman is about...! Now, no one says she can't be on the ropes, or even defeated from time to time, but in this issue she is little more than a pawn and an object of status (to the gods, to her mortal friends)--- with no real control of her destiny. I, for one, thought the council of the gods was poorly done. Heaphaestus and Ares were never (in any way shape or form) allies--- in fact, they hate each other perhaps more than any one else (Ares cuckolded Heaphaestus, and the smith nearly killed him; that's Greek Mythology 101). And who put Athena in charge? Apollo assumed the Throne of Olympus in the conclusion of my own first nine issue arc on this title, with Athena's advice and counsel--- in fact (and not to be snarky), I would heartily reccommend the creative team read those issues to get an idea of who Wonder Woman is! In that arc, Ares has a significant (though hidden) role, the conclusion of which you probably could do much with. Guys, I implore you again: take a look at what you're doing here! This title is too important (at least to me) to not deserve your best. All that being said, I still have faith that the larger framework of the story has a lot of potential, and I'd love to see this team kick butt on this title. I will give the next issue another try--- (but please, please, please take my advice into consideration--- push the post date back if you have to, re-think, re-write, re-edit, whatever!), but if it's more of the same, I'm sorry to say you'll have lost a reader.
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 13, 2007 21:44:54 GMT -5
The issue is a transitional issue, but I need the main character to suffer for the coming arc to make sense. Sorry if you feel as if the story is not the best... it's the ground work for things that are true to what Wonder Woman is. I am somewhat dismayed by your comments, David, because you've set fire to the story without allowing it to be told first...
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Post by lissilambe on Sept 13, 2007 22:00:25 GMT -5
I think ultimately, the biggest problems with this issue remains the fact that three weeks of her captivity passes with no sign of her ability to free herself (a super-hero staple) and that for three weeks, not one of her friends is apparently seeking her out (and when you have Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash searching for you, being hidden is TOUGH); combined with the idea that between the cover's clear, clear implications, and the stated facts, this issue reads (to me, and at least one other person I've talked to about this) one step away from a story you'd see on Grey Archive or its ilk. At least, that's my theory on others (and a fact for me).
Hopefully, this story you hint at will indeed recover the rocky beginning, but right now, this issue has left a very bad taste with the treatment of its iconic star, and the nigh-on-WiR treatment she received.
Take care Don
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 13, 2007 22:02:15 GMT -5
It was supposed to do that. That's the very motivation of why Diana acts as she will in the future.
-shrugs-
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Post by lissilambe on Sept 13, 2007 22:56:07 GMT -5
Well, in that case, I look forward to being shown I'm wrong, and see what sort of hit you have in your hands. Take care Don
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 13, 2007 23:07:00 GMT -5
I don't want to prove anyone wrong.. or right. I just want to entertain people...
sorry just feeling deflated right now it's been a hard month... and David's comments.. just made me recoil.
sorry just being honest.
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Post by lissilambe on Sept 13, 2007 23:17:28 GMT -5
Don't worry about it. I like being proven wrong (happens often enough, that's for sure). As for getting deflated, I can understand that feeling. Just gotta dust yourself off and floor the naysayers, that's all. You've got it in you, the story's there...just keep pitching.
Take care Don
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Post by David on Sept 14, 2007 7:23:34 GMT -5
The issue is a transitional issue, but I need the main character to suffer for the coming arc to make sense. Sorry if you feel as if the story is not the best... it's the ground work for things that are true to what Wonder Woman is. I am somewhat dismayed by your comments, David, because you've set fire to the story without allowing it to be told first... As well you should be, Z. I in no way want to offend or discourage you, but you (and this title) deserve my honest feedback. Would I have been so forthright if I didn't think there was a very real danger of drastic derailment? No. You'll find that I am perhaps the most encouraging of supporters on the site, and that for the most part, I am happy to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But there are real problems with this run, and if my feedback causes you to rethink the way you are proceeding (and the way you are edited--- the editor on this has some responsibility as well), then in the long run, I've done you, and everyone else (including the character), a favor. Though to say I've set fire to this story before it's finished is unfair. I've commented on two complete issues. Those issues should stand on their own as Wonder Woman stories--- which is not to say that they can't tell a larger multi-arc tale; in fact, I think I mentioned twice that I thought the larger story has a lot of potential. But if the pieces of a whole are bad, the writer (and to a smaller extent, the editor) is accountable to that, and no conclusion--- no matter how amazing!--- can wipe that away. I hope you take this feedback in the spirit it is given, and like Don suggested, come back and give us an epic Wonder Woman tale. I can tell you have it in you, and I look forward to enjoying this title once again.
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Post by darkknight814 on Sept 14, 2007 7:40:58 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree on your assessment then.
But I don't intend to leave until I am done.
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Post by David on Sept 14, 2007 14:58:51 GMT -5
I sincerely hope you don't leave (nor was that ever my desire). I hope you take my feedback (and the feedback of others) into consideration, and I hope you guide this title into the hit it deserves to be. No one wants a great DC2 Wonder Woman book more than I do!
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Quester
Staff
Call me 'Q'!
Posts: 681
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Post by Quester on Sept 15, 2007 3:44:49 GMT -5
With all the controvesy I know want to read a title I have never read before and I think I will really enjoy it. When it comes to comics I like to puch the boundries and do things people wouldnt expect in a way and style that is new and different not the same old Sinestro and GL slug fest (not that theres anything wrong with that, hell Gl is one of my fav characters its jsut to prove a point). COmics can become tiresome if every character is the same and if violence is in every issue to such lengthyness, comics are afterall essentially two guys in spandex punching each other. When someone decides to make the threat real and really dangerous Im like' hell yeah'. Im gonna read this and give an honest opinion and Im hoping not to be let down.
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Post by zirron on Sept 16, 2007 16:11:08 GMT -5
A couple days ago, I blew my lid because I react poorly to some critique of the writing. While, I take the criticism now more then then...
I first should apologize for those I have offended or what not.
My real job is requiring long hours.. and I worked in the Foreclosure department for one of the biggest mortgage companies around.. we're working tirelessly to try and save people's homes. I hear about death.. disease.. divorce and etc... and it weighs on me heavily.
My tale with WW is just about to begin. There will be things that are classic to WW and some things that will be explained for why and what've done in the last issues so that some of the charges brought up can be addressed. Not because I am responding to the criticism but because they have already been planned for.
I am sorry for any pain I have caused this community. People from around the world make up our ranks, and I truly sad that I reacted that way, but my time here isn't done. (thanks to Mark.)
I will finish the tale and you'll see why I did what I had to do to set it up.
Thanks.
Zirron.
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Post by darthsylly on Sept 17, 2007 7:47:52 GMT -5
Great to have you back Jay I look forward to seeing where the story goes from here. - Syl
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