Do Comics Objectify Women?

Not going to read the article, I don't really need to when it comes to this kind of question. I think Yes. Of course they are. Think about the target demographic, teenagers mainly (I know there are other fans, long-time fans for instance, but I think that this is the audience the companies want to appeal to) and everything ends up into a male power fantasy.

Scantily clad women (when females are caught in explosions in comic books, when they aren't murdered horrendously by the blast, we all know what portion of their attire is going to burnt off), damsels in distress... it's always awesome to see a strong female lead (Wonder Woman! Mary Ja-- oh, wait...) but you look at their costumes, and you just feel embarrassed most of the time (Power Girl... Witchblade...).

So yeah, a lot of the time, women are objectified by comics. They're raped, murdered, turned into victims, turned evil, they betray the men, all this stuff which just makes you groan inwardly. That's what I think, anyway.

I can appreciate what you're saying, and I was talking to someone earlier today (they'll speak up if they want to), but no, if you look at our comic book "real life" culture, at Conventions you have people dressing up as Emma Frost, as Power Girl and all this to promote comics. People find this attractive.

Men find scantly clad women attractive. Carry this over to comics. Come on, it's all gratuitous in some ways, and comics are taking levels of acceptance above and beyond ten years ago, violence, sex, language.

Women are sex objects through images, because we like something we can look at, but men are exactly the same, be it through literature or through images themselves. I don't think you can dismiss it as because "they're not real" because to some people, this is what people believe translates to real life. T&A. You have it in everything.

Oh, and that violence in video game argument people offer up bugs me relentless. You're right of course, man. If people are evil sonsofbitches, they don't need video games to make them do horrible stuff. They'll figure it out in their own way. Whilst they don't make violent kids, they do offer inspiration though.

Well, speaking of comic stories in general, there is a wide range of representations of human relationships and artistic expressions, but when speaking of certain genres - the example being mainstream superheroes - then yeah of course they are realistically portraying men or women. Power fantasies in various forms, that's part of the game whether you like to think of it in that way or not. The male and female characters are portray in idealized ways. For examples, muscles shouldn't show through clothes like that - even on Superman. And women aren't all 6 foot tall and regularly wear skin tight clothes but that's what works visually for the genre. It's why most actors and actresses look more like models than regular people. It's why pin-up girls are popular, with men and women. Some guys like to look at them, some girls like to look like them. Like was said already, there are more attractive women cosplaying in attractive costumes at cons these days than ever before.

But there is a place where this divides. In my experience I've noticed female fans skew more toward the artists that show the heroines (and villainesses) in a sexy and glamorous way. Examples being guys like Adam Hughes and Joseph Michael Linsner. There's a reason there's always a healthy costuming contingent for Dawn at the larger shows. So it's women that are sexy and strong - the Wonder Woman role model/empowerment factor.

There is the other side though that moves toward the fetishistic. When female character look more like strippers and have terrible things happen to them like the examples Charlie gave then that's something else. There is a line where it goes too far when the female characters are degraded or being the target of excessive or more sexualized violence. Getting slammed into building is something that happens to all the superheroes. Getting a shirt torn off and then getting tied up and tortured, that's something else. How often does Batman get his pants torn off and then get handcuffed in a suggestive pose? How many male heroes have been raped?

Sometimes more mature and real world issues can be addressed in comics if done in a thoughful way. Sometimes exploitation is just that and some people are into that too. But the line is defined getting blurred on a lot of fronts in the mainstream books. Graphic violence, mature sexual themes, etc. Comics are for a range of age groups now and there should be some recognition of that. What say would a tween fan have thought when they walked into their comic shop and bought a copy of Identity Crisis (just some big superhero fun right?) and without warning are presented with a rape?

I think it's definitely a valid issue that needs to be looked at closer. A little more responsibility from the comic companies to make sure their content is reaching the appropriate audiences would go a long way.

I'm a huge lefty, so freedom of speech kind of things get me flared up, and that's what I translated this to. So if I seemed kind of hot-headed here, I apologize. I still stand by my opinion, that this is kind of a bone-headed argument that's been brought up before, but I can see what you're saying RE.

Yeah, if I had a kid, I wouldn't want him or her reading Identity Crisis or Witchblade or something unless they were a little older, but that's not the issue here, I feel.

The whole argument from the article, which I did read, is that women in comics are always being posed or dressed provocatively, weak, or as little sex-kittens. I have three responses, one to each point.

1.) As killerseamonkey was sort of pointing out, when women superheroes are slammed into walls or tied up, it's not the comic being provocative, that's what would happen to a male hero. When fighting crime, people are dressed attractively because that's helps sell the comic, and women in slink outfits is what's attractive. Have you seen people on the red carpet lately?

On a side note for rape which I think is an issue that should be addressed separately, statistically, women are raped way more than men so if that were to translate to comics... well that's the way it is. If the super-villain is male, and the super-heroine is an attractive female and he's over-powered her, that's what might happen.

2.) As for women being portrayed as weak, this part makes me angry because, yes, in the past they were because women's rights sucked. These days though, I dare you to fine a comic where a female character is portrayed as "helpless." Men heroes will save women as much as men and those men are portrayed as helpless as the women. The superhero will save his love interest because she's not a hero: duh! The article made a reference to the first Superman comic with Lois Lane being an example of this anti-feminism, but even though she's saved by Superman in the story, she did stand up to a thug when out on a date with Clark Kent and is overall portrayed as willful and strong. Then the 50's happened but, that was the time...

3.) Super-heroines dress in what is most functional, just like heroes, which is usually something that won't get in the way (tight) or freeing (small bits). Sometimes this is exaggerated for sales, but that's not supposed to be a part of the character. Just because a women is dressed sexily, doesn't mean we can't take her seriously. If you can't then you're the immature one. Remember, a comic is selling you a story and a pretty picture, thus pretty women. Unless of course you get writers like Frank Miller, but he does that to be purposefully outrageous.

I just think this whole issue is silly in the end. If the reader is not mature enough to see someone in "slinky" clothing, then they need to be cut off from a lot of media (which I get for younguns). Otherwise, women being portrayed is weak has no evidence to it, unless you're looking for it, which just shows how sexist or shallow those people are.

I am realizing that I apologized for being too heated in my post, and am now being heated in this post. I guess it's too hard for me not to become heated at this issue.

Also, my parents raised me in a completely open atmosphere. I could watch whatever I wanted and read whatever I wanted, and when I asked my dad where babies come from at age 9, he told me the truth. Like, the real TRUTH. Despite all this, I'm fairly well-adjusted.

*glares threateningly at arcalian and wields frying pan* Yeah, you just KEEP runnin'...

I could not disagree with Jay more. For one thing, I hate reading the stuff myself. I absolutely detest stories that the 'heroine' is a harlot. What strength does that possibly show? If anything, it reveals her insecurity. Why have a super-powered heroine who's most-used... power? talent? haha... is her sexuality? I'm looking for a little character depth and action-- not to mention plot-- in my comics, which I don't find in issues where the characters have sex with different partners throughout the series. Not only do I just find it wrong, I find it limiting in what could be done with the characters and stories.

Secondly, I don't have a huge budget, ha. When I do buy comics, I often pass on the ones I would LOVE to read and go for ones that my siblings (all younger, down to 5) can read, too. Often, these are the older comics, or toonier ones, but it at least is something they can read. I got 100 comics for Christmas a few years ago, and my siblings weren't allowed to read them--the older two were only allowed to read three of them years later. My 8 year-old brother has begged for more comics he could read than the limited supply I had that he was allowed, so I ended up trading my 90+ comics in for several Nightwing ones. I bought 3 Spider-man ones for him for Christmas. His excitement at seeing something he could read was, well, great.

Jay's signature reads, "The real world contains all the pain, suffering, loss and tragedy I will ever need; superheroes are an escape from this. Or at least they should be." I agree with THAT! I've heard I'm contradictory because while I like my comics to be very realistic, I don't like them to be quite real in some senses, such as that. Yes, the characters should deal with real-life issues, but there should be a line drawn somewhere.

That said, I did disagree with some points in the article--overall, she was right. In more titles than I can count women are portrayed as weak victims, and sex objects throughout. I thought her redundant and bringing in some examples I couldn't quite say were completely accurate, though in general, I agreed with the point she was making.

The next one you won't block so easily... muahaha...

I'll be honest, though, and say that it is disappointing to click on a cover and begin reading a story, only to find the characters having sex, or thinking about having sex, or remembering having sex, or... you get the idea... every other paragraph. It's something I detest. While based on religious reasons, it's also something I just find personally revolting. Don't shoot, Charlie! but the other day, when reading through several DC2 issues, I quit in the middle of one-- 'Tec, I think-- when I got to Killer Frost in bed with I-don't-remember-who. It wasn't the one story, I was just tired of finding the same theme throughout the site!

While I may occasionally roll my eyes and scroll past long sections with no action happening but that in bed, I don't hate reading your stuff, Jay, LOL.

I started reading this article but stopped short and did a quick skim through the rest of it when the writer made it clear that he or she doesn't actually read comics. I mean the fact that wonder woman was being crushed by a woman totally ruins the righteous indignation I should be feeling starting out this article. A more suiting wonder woman cover would have been something like this:


I mean... look at it.

Anyways, the special Frank Miller portion of it also irked me. "Another character he sexualizes incredibly is Vicki Vale in his new Batman All-Stars graphic novels" Oh yes, all those graphic novels that have came out. It fills me with rage because there is hardly enough material to warrant ONE graphic novel. Also racist and sexist 300? Psh, ridiculous.

So where were we? Oh right, objectification of women in comics. Well, I guess it depends on the comics you read. If you read the happy go lucky comics of the golden age, clearly there was, Hawkgirl was one of the earliest female superheroes and the bulk of her appearances were her just getting stuck or hurt and bumbling around whilst Hawkman flew around beating stuff up barechested. The Silver age had similar type of things happening but it was the sixties so they were becoming a little more empowered and THAT Hawkgirl was still beautiful but more likely to put up a fight with the shadow thief and that sort of crap. That hawkgirl was pretty tough and smart and confident and I would say a pretty good role model for young female readers. Same era also had Sue Storm constantly being bullied around by her husband and being talked to like a six year old. She was pretty much just a pretty face. That's the way it is. It's way to easy to say ALL comics are sexist because some artist like to do cheesecake poses and reference porn to get the anatomy down straight. Like John said, the article really focusses hard on SUPERHERO comics instead of just COMICS. Strangers in Paradise is a good example as is Thorn Harvestar in Bone who is never objectified once in like however many thousands of pages.

So I voted that I have other opinions because that blog is pretty weak.

Thanks, John..

I did think it amusing that the first picture she used in her article was from Wonder Woman #2? I've only read issues 1-3 of Alan's WW, but if I remember correctly, there were only three or four really important male characters, one of whom was rescued by Donna (though he was hoping for yet another woman to rescue him, Diana) and one of whom Circe enchanted. Steve and Nemesis needed rescued, Hercules tried to dominate (darn macho morons, anyway) and Psycho played with her mind. So at least half the central male characters needed rescued by Wonder Woman.

While I might not agree with it, Charlie, I do understand why some authors incorporate scenes into certain issues, if it carries the story in the direction the author wants. I just think it's... annoying... to happen to pick a day when every issue I read has some character or other having sex, etc. I just don't think that's what comics are for, lol.

This is true. But I feel you are missing a very important part of this and is something my wife and I have brought up on several occasions. How is it that so many of these dumb ass guys are all married to strong, smart, and extremely attractive wives? Maybe they are such dumb asses after all now are they? ;D

You are no fun Chris!

Sorry John.

*exalt for Susan*

I thank Zirron for sharing my blog post here.

I just wanted to point out a couple of things. What's so problematic about saying that "men are objectified too" is that this whole concept of "reverse sexism" is flawed (just like "reverse racism" is flawed). There is a difference between how men and women are sexualized in comic books. First of all, men’s muscles and “perfect” physique are drawn to demonstrate power and strength. For women, drawing them with large breasts and “perfect” bodies is more about sex than it is about super-powers. Many young women who I’ve spoken to said that there is NO WAY a woman can look like these images because they’re drawn so out of proportion. According to a couple of researchers: “…a young woman between the ages of 18-34 has a 7% chance of being as slim as a catwalk model and a 1% chance of being as thin as a supermodel.”

Even images of women in popular magazines, posters, and billboards, are altered in order to make her look more “sexy” or “beautiful.” Making these alterations says a lot about how society values a certain body type (and whatever society values constitutes "real beauty"). Psychological studies have also shown that women had lower self-evaluations when they were shown slides of thin models. People who were shown images of average and oversized models on the other hand had better self-evaluations. According to one source: 75% of “normal” weight women think they are overweight and 90% of women overestimate their body size. And we all know what kind of eating disorders poor body image may lead to.

So THIS is why we must question and challenge the typical images of women (and yes, men) that are presented in the media. "The male gaze" feminist theory I mentioned in my post needs to be taken into account as well. You don't see men drawn in sexual poses; instead you see women drawn in ways that are pleasing to heterosexual male readers.

For example, look at Jim Lee's artwork in "Superman: For Tomorrow," there are plenty of panels where Wonder Woman is bent over and drawn in suggestive positions. It would probably benefit doubters to read the comments that are posted under my blog post. There were several female comic book readers who responded, and one of them expressed her frustration with her boyfriend who doesn't understand what's so wrong with drawing women half-naked and in thongs.

Before calling my post "totally bogus," consider that these depictions of women are not only seen in comic books, but *throughout* the mainstream media -- commercials, music videos, magazines, billboards, movies, Disney cartoons, television shows -- you name it, our society values a certain body image for women. Why else do actresses and models get breast implants? Please read the study conducted by Jessica H. Zellers, which I cited in my post.

Before calling this post "BS," take a moment to listen to other perspectives, especially how the majority of women feel about this issue. My post was also posted on Fantasy Magazine and I suggest doubters to read the comments there as well. A few people who commented said this is the reason why they stopped reading American comic books (because of how women were always objectified). By studying how women are poorly depicted and sexualized in comic books, we can produce NEW ideas and NEW interpretations of female characters. No medium is perfect, so there is always room for improvement. If you look at the box office successes of "The Dark Knight," "Iron Man," "The Incredible Hulk," and the "Spider-man" films, you'll notice that male characters take the center stage. But in comic book movies where women are the protagonists, "Catwoman" and "Elektra," they bomb at the box office. We all know how horrible these movies were, but my point here is that we need to find new and more interesting ways to present female characters. It's taking forever to get a "Wonder Woman" green-lit, but when it gets made, will we see a successful film with an intelligent three-dimensional character, or will we see a film that relies too heavily on a scantily-clad pseudo-feminist Wonder Woman? My ultimate intent with this post was to inform and to INSPIRE.

As for brigante133's defense of Frank Miller, I suggest that you read one of my newer posts, "Frank Miller's '300' and the Persistence of Accepted Racism." Defense of "300" are usually very short and weak because there isn't much material to counter the accusation of racism. It should be in the interest of everyone who disagrees with me to read or listen to Frank Miller's interview on NPR where he expressed his antagonism towards Middle-Easterners and Muslims. I mention the interview in my post (and the link to the interview is posted):

brokenmystic.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/frank-millers-300-and-the-persistence-of-accepted-racism/

And I agree with you all about the Trina Robbins quote. I should have left that out.

Oh and arguing about Frank Miller with brigante133 is the wrong tree to bark up.