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Post by brigante133 on Dec 4, 2005 22:56:23 GMT -5
SO... who do you think is the most evil of evil in the DC Universe (not including people who exist in real life, so you cannot say... oh , I dunno Hitler) I'll start by saying the Joker bar none. Unlike some others, Joker doesn't care if he is not liked and not even the villains want to hang with him now. but that is just my very breif explaination, who do you guys think?
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Dr Dread
Staff 
The Odious-1
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Post by Dr Dread on Dec 4, 2005 23:01:04 GMT -5
I had to go for big bad Darkseid. The anti-life equasion is a scary idea. He really represents all the frightning ideals totalitarian fascism.
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Post by Brandon on Dec 5, 2005 8:47:14 GMT -5
I'll have to say Vandal Savage.
He's been the villain for quite some time and has influenced the course of the world even if he hasn't taken it over completely. He also was able to "defeat" the JSA by forcing them to disband after WWII. He's cunning and often times gets closer to actually accomplishing his goals than most bad guys. A personal favorite story of mine for Savage was the JUSTICE LEAGUE episode where Superman is flung into the far future in a timeline in which Savage succeeded in destroying the League, and just about everyone else as well. After having spent many millennia alone he realized that obliterating the human race wasn't really all it was cracked up to be and rehabilitated. He helped Superman return to the past on the condition that he would promise to stop him from destroying the world. HA!
Right, anyway, Vandal Savage!
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Post by starlord on Dec 5, 2005 9:09:03 GMT -5
They are all great choices but I do think that Darksied has the edge.
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Post by goldk on Dec 5, 2005 10:57:08 GMT -5
I don't know those are all good villians. I kinda expect that from them though. The villians that I remember most are those that do things that are not expected. Take for example Dr. Light. Man that scene with him and Sue in the satellite really turned my stomach, and who would have expected that from him. The first time a villian really caught my eye like that was Toyman in Superman when he killed Cat Grants son. So I think right now I 'd have to say my favorite villian is Dr. Light. Certainly not for what he did to Sue but because if was a sociopath before, now knowing what the league has done to him gives him, in his mind at least, a motivation for his actions. Whether you agree with what happened to him or not.
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Post by HoM on Dec 5, 2005 12:21:17 GMT -5
I'll chime in.
Lex Luthor is rutheless, but too concerned on public opinion to be an outright greatest villain. He's fueled by hatred, something that trips up all his plans, and this is why, in my opinion, he is not the greatest.
Darkseid is a God! The closest to Satan in the DCU evil scale. He hates everything good in the universe, and so, yeah, greatest EVIL villain. But nowadays in the books he appears in, his power scale has gone down so much that Wonder Woman can deflect his Omega Beams with her bracelets... And Superman can counteract it with his heat vision... How bad much his self esteem be? He should be omnipotent... Unbeatable.
Sinestro isn't the greatest. He's not that great a villain anyway... He is a great threat for any player in the DCU, but he can be better... He shouldn't be a lackey for the Society, its something too much like the Corps... He's a lone agent, some one who does things to suit him, not for a whole.
Braniac is fantastic. Not evil, because he's a massive computer! He can't be evil, he knows no emotion. Has he even got a real motive for fighting good? I don't think he can be a good villain unless he's in the hands of a good writer. I love the Krypton computer version of him, not the Coluan version. There, he's a bit sucky. (the best Braniac story ever? The Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? Thats the way to be a villain. Through logic.)
Anti Monitor... oh... He's on a whole different level to 'villain'... Like Mageddon, hes a force of nature, an embodiement of a universe... To be frank, in no way should the heroes have won in COIE! He was the complete opposite of them! He was unrelenting, eviler than Darkseid, more powerful... If Darkseid is a god, then the Anti Monitor is the God of Gods.
Vandal Savage is a cold, calculating SOB, but in the same set as Lex Luthor. He's been too corporate, not as savage as he could be. He's one of those guys you should be afraid of, as hes like the Batman of the villain community. His evil organisation has agents everywhere, and really... He's the one who could coerce your grandma to murder you in your sleep.
Ah... The Joker, truly the greatest evil villain in the DCU. Not fueled by anything other than his insanity, this is the guy that gives the villains nightmares. He can go one on one with Batman, not with his fists, but his wits and insance sense of humour. I love him, and he, to me, is the greatest villain. Evil without reason or provocation, to me, is the scariest thing ever.
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 5, 2005 15:28:26 GMT -5
I agree with you 100 percent Charlie.
as for doctor light... i beleive rorshach said it best, "I'm not here to speculate on the moral lapses of men..."
'
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 5, 2005 20:05:43 GMT -5
Apocalypse, it is the true source of evil behind all of its inhabitants. Darkseid is nothing but a pawn, he is only advancing the schemes of the planet itself.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
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Post by Dr Dread on Dec 5, 2005 20:33:45 GMT -5
Apocalypse, it is the true source of evil behind all of its inhabitants. Darkseid is nothing but a pawn, he is only advancing the schemes of the planet itself. Soooo... was that a vote for Darkseid, or "other"? |
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Post by Lantern Lad on Dec 6, 2005 13:44:11 GMT -5
I will have to agree with the Joker... Anyone else as disturbed as I was by the 'Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker' unedited version? Truly a great movie...
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 6, 2005 17:32:18 GMT -5
never knew there was an uneditted version. was it like DK2 when bats chopped off ev robin/ new jokers head off with a hatchet???
if so sign me up!
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 6, 2005 20:22:19 GMT -5
Apocalypse, it is the true source of evil behind all of its inhabitants. Darkseid is nothing but a pawn, he is only advancing the schemes of the planet itself. Soooo... was that a vote for Darkseid, or "other"? Other, Apocalypse made all its previous tyrants evil, it made Darkseid evil, and it will make every future ruler of the planet evil. |
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Post by starlord on Dec 6, 2005 20:28:21 GMT -5
Now that would make an interesting story. The death of Darksied and the beginning of a brand new tyrant.
All they would have to do is send WW in to do that neck thing of hers and boom...instant classic!
....or not...
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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Post by Dr Dread on Dec 6, 2005 21:00:57 GMT -5
Now that would make an interesting story. The death of Darksied and the beginning of a brand new tyrant. All they would have to do is send WW in to do that neck thing of hers and boom...instant classic! ....or not... Doesn't the prophecy say Orion will kill Darkseid? HighFather: Orion, did you just rescue WonderWoman and kill Darkseid's by snapping his neck? Orion: ....Uh... yeah! HighFather: Why did you tie him up with WonderWoman lasso? Orion: ...Uh... yeah! |
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 6, 2005 22:10:12 GMT -5
that is why in kingdom come orion is all evil and has darksied esque facial hair and weird Prince Valiant hair. their look (not unlike their tale) is one that is generational.
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 6, 2005 23:14:34 GMT -5
I think that Orion will become the new ruler of Apocalypse after killing Darkseid. That's the way it works on Apocalypse, the person who kills the current tyrant of the planet becomes the new tyrant. Heck, that might have been Darkseid's plan all along. Orion would know all of New Genesis' secrets and he would lead Apocalypse to its final victory over New Genesis.
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 10:56:29 GMT -5
so are you saying he plans his own demise so his son can overtake his own homeland that he has been fighting along side the whole time... clever bastard
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 7, 2005 17:50:34 GMT -5
There definitely a Sith thing with Darkseid and Apocalypse, I wouldn't be surprised if Darkseid quotes the Emperor in the final battle with Orion: "Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete."
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 18:59:37 GMT -5
he couldnt quote too much star wars though, after a while he would begin to sound like butthead. "Come to the Darkseid!"
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 7, 2005 19:20:47 GMT -5
Plus he'd get sued by Lucas and even the force of Apocalypse can not withstand the assault of Lucas's army of lawyers.
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Post by Brandon on Dec 7, 2005 20:02:00 GMT -5
Do you mean Apocalypse the character? Or Apokolips the planet? Apocalypse the character is Marvel's rip-off version of Darkseid.
And Lucas wouldn't sue over New Gods I don't believe. Consider that Lucas began writing Star Wars in Feb. 1972 and NEW GODS the comic debuted a year earlier. Also consider the similarities of Darkseid's helmet to Darth Vader's, the visual closeness of Apokolips to the Death Star, the father/son struggle of Darkseid and Orion, Orion's mastery over the Astro-Force, and Highfather's referrals to the all-knowing and all-powerful energy field known as The Source (rhymes with Force, eh?).
Lucas, an admitted fan of comics and serialized adventures seems to have taken at least some inspiration from Kirby I would say so it would be wrong in many ways for him to attempt to sue over the NEW GODS concept. But, to show how cool Kirby was and that he didn't hold any bad feelings, the last published piece of Kirby artwork I recall before his death was his Darth Vader/Luke Skywalker pic for the Topps cards released in the early 90s.
And that, is the rest of the story. ;D
edit: I wanted to add that I'm not claiming that NEW GODS was the sole inspiration to STAR WARS either. There are the other obvious influences of the LORD OF THE RINGS and the LENSMAN books. And of course the artsy one Lucas always cops to, HIDDEN FORTRESS.
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 20:27:13 GMT -5
tsh how could lucas rip off kirby that bad  |
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Post by Brandon on Dec 7, 2005 20:38:57 GMT -5
Well, it actually worked out okay for Kirby as well. Due to the popularity of STAR WARS some of the source materials saw a revival and increased marketability due, ironically, to their simililarities to the mega-hit movies by Lucas.
LENSMAN got the animation treatment, but with such a heavy visual influence from STAR WARS that it was hard to take it seriously. But, to breath life into the long-running SUPER FRIENDS cartoon and merchandising, Hanna Barbera/DC revamped it into SUPER POWERS and made the Darth Vader-like villain, Darkseid, the Big Bad. Kirby received royalties off of this and made a nice chunk of change. It has been said that DC paid Kirby more money for that single character than Marvel ever paid him for helping create their entire universe.
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 20:49:44 GMT -5
well i was joking.
but i thought it was that they gave him more credit for creating that one character than Marvel ever did for helping create their entire universe... prolly both... poor Jack. Say speaking of the king, did anyone catch that episode of the ninja turtles that aired a year or so ago with Jack and Donatello entering a different dimension filled with Kirby inspired villains and other new gods based characters ?!? that 'un was actually one of the new series' episodes that I actually watched. at the end it even had a dedication to him.
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Post by giantevilhead on Dec 7, 2005 20:53:20 GMT -5
I am of course talking about Apokolips the planet. I keep forgetting how Apokolips is spelled. Why wasn't Apokolips spelled Apocalypse?
Lucas is more of a talentless hack than I thought.
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Post by Brandon on Dec 7, 2005 21:25:54 GMT -5
well i was joking. but i thought it was that they gave him more credit for creating that one character than Marvel ever did for helping create their entire universe... prolly both... poor Jack. Say speaking of the king, did anyone catch that episode of the ninja turtles that aired a year or so ago with Jack and Donatello entering a different dimension filled with Kirby inspired villains and other new gods based characters ?!? that 'un was actually one of the new series' episodes that I actually watched. at the end it even had a dedication to him. Nope, he was paid for his efforts and worked on the cartoon and redesigns for the NEW GODS toy characters for the SP line. It made have led to his animation work in the 80s actually (Thundarr!). I didn't see that ep of TMNT but it is an adaptation of a Turtles comic from the 80s, pre-cartoon when they were still all cool and stuff.  It was a DONATELLO one-shot and one of my favorite comics! The only Kirby tribute that outdid it was Alan Moore's "New Jack City" story in the last issue of SUPREME. Sorry to go all Kirby fanboy on you guys, but c'mon, it's KIRBY! |
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 21:32:26 GMT -5
fair enough, yeah i read about the adaptation from the comic. the comic was called kirby and the warp crystal and the later was simply the king. as for kirby going into animation, from what Eisner says, that was kirbys idea of hitting it bigtime. imagine that. he said like lots of guys from his era, kirby left to hollywood to pursue a career in animation. although he may have worked on those dc animations and found an outlet through that, (according to eisner) he was wanting to get into animation because that is where the "money and fame was" yep your right brand, it was "paid more" checked source: DC Comics has occasionally made the remark, with no undue pride, that they’ve paid Kirby more for creating Darkseid than Marvel did for creating their entire universe. moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/23.html |
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Post by Brandon on Dec 7, 2005 22:05:58 GMT -5
Yep, that would be the one. And I still say Vandal Savage. |
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Post by brigante133 on Dec 7, 2005 22:42:37 GMT -5
what? you wanna fight?
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Post by starlord on Dec 7, 2005 22:50:44 GMT -5
It had to happen...what the DC Universe has feared for all these years. The villian that can't be beat... Ambush Bug...UNLEASHED!!!!! now thinkg about that for a second  |
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It was a DONATELLO one-shot and one of my favorite comics! The only Kirby tribute that outdid it was Alan Moore's "New Jack City" story in the last issue of SUPREME.