Batman Titles

really? I mean he's give and take with me. Some I like, some I don't. Actually hated his X-Men run and thought his Animal Man stuff was his best. But okay, I'm guessing then that you aren't reading Batman. ;D

I've started picking up Batman again solely because Grant Morrison's writing it. Really enjoyed his first two issues, but I've not got round to reading the latest issue yet.

I had the exact opposite reaction from the first issue of the Ostrander/Mandrake. I thought the art was good for the most part, but would've been better if it wasn't so inconsitant (ranged from really well done to awkward but passable), and I didn't find the writing or the story itself to be anything special. I want to give this story a chance so I'm buying all 4 issues, but so far I'm not really impressed. I can see the appeal, it's not like this is an undeniably bad issue, it just didn't do anything for me.

I hope so; I'm still hesitant about reading this series, due to my personal feelings towards the EXTREME! comics of the 1990's

i am totally off of morrison after he dissed my boy frank miller so i wouldnt know.

as for dini, meh i can't stand the covers and that's how i judge comics. both actually annoyed me as far as the covers went since on some we saw some wimpy looking overly equipped batman and on the other was the kubert son immitating jim lee.

you can tell its kubert and not lee the same way you can tell that you got rikes from a flee market instead of nikes.

as for the miller jealousy, i've said that before a few places. it may not be true but i get a chuckle out of it.

I totally love this issue. Both the Dini Batman stories and the previous Morrison son of the batman arc have bored me stiff. Nothing interest or fresh or new was being attempted. They were "good" stories, but nothing that leaves a lasting impact. I actually dropped both titles but picked up Batman #663 because it looked like it was just out of the box enough to interest me and WOW I was blown away. I especially like the return of the Joker who knows who Batman really is, but honestly doesn't care because he thinks the batmask is his "Real" face and Bruce Wayne a fiction.

I totally dug the narrative style and the creepy bizarre art. One of the best Batman issues I've read in a long time.

I enjoyed it. It's not something that I would want to read monthly (Morrison's crazy metaphors are interesting but would get old after a while), but it was a nice change. I really liked how Grant got inside Joker's head, and I love the "super personality" idea of the Joker, which gives writers the freedom to do the Joker they want to do (which is what they did before, but now there is a good explanation for it).

I didn't like the art half the time though, it ranged from creepy to half assed CGI art. I think I have to see the Joker's new look drawn by another artist before I know how I feel about it, but it doesn't seem too drastic of a change.

All in all, I thought this was a great Joker story. It doesn't rank up there with the Killing Joke, but it is definately one of the best I've ever read.

Actually that was not a big reveal at all. The notion that the Joker knows who Batman is, but honestly doesn't care has been bouncing around DC for a long long time, since before Death in the Family when it readily apparent the Joker knows who Bruce Wayne is.

In Arkham Asylum, when the Joker tells another villain that it doesn't matter who Batman is because the mask is his "real" face. Joker simply considers Bruce Wayne a fiction, and Batman the reality. That's why he never goes after Bruce directly. In his own head, all that matters is Batman.

I dropped Batman after the "Batman and Son" arc (I still get Dini's Tec, though--- just to stay in touch), but picked Morrison's latest issue up on a whim.

I was pleasantly surprised. I thought the writing was evocative and the characterization clever. Nor was I bothered too much by the digital-style art. I probably won't get the next issue (I'm just not that interested in Batman), but I enjoyed this one!

I read it. I loved it. Nuff said.

It's so a parody. "I love being the godamn Batman!" anyone?

you of all people can relate to it then...

Well since you asked...lol

First, I think Miller is probably laughing...but not because he is trying to pull a fast one on readers. He is just telling his story like any other writer. If I was him I would be laughing my ass off at readers who have fanboy meltdowns over every panel asking -"Is Miller being serious??? Is Miller doing a parody?? Is Miller really the devil??" and so on and so forth. And in all this blah blah blah over what Frank Miller REALLY means by his All Star Batman and Robin story, people are missing the answer that is staring them right in the face - the story itself.

First yours specific questions about why I like this issue:

1) Batman's lack of concern for justice? His apparent obssession with violence and inflicting pain?

Well I actually don't get your objection here. There is no such thing as a "definitive" Batman. To some its Miller, others Denny O'Neil other Englehart and so on. Over the course of Batman comics, what Batman considers "justice" has varied considerably. In original Batman stories by Kane and Finger, Batman was stone cold killer. He carried a gun and routinely greased criminal - he was forever dropping crooks into the vats of acid that were apparently all over the place in Gotham, breaking the necks, shooting them in the face, throwing them off buildings and so on. So that is Batman's original sense of "justice."

Through the 50 and 60s, putting the camp of some of that to the side, Batman became just another joe in tights. His motivations and methods not much different that Superman or Green Lantern. O'Neil's late silver age stuff gave Bats an edge again, although not quiet the same as Kane's original. By then Batman had long developed a hatred of guns. But O'Neil's Batman wasn't above beating the crap out of a criminal, even if it was just for an object lesson. People weren't just scared of Batman because looked scary, but because he inflicted damage. Still, Batman remained an unofficial cop, and a defender of the status quo.

Miller turned that on its head in Y1 and DKR, in both books he beats the crap out of cops - in Y1 he beats Gordon's corrupt partner to a pulp and breaks several of his bones. And we never quite find out what happens to that rapist in DKR...but sure as hell was more violent than being tied up for the cops to arrive with a note attached to his chest.

All Star Batman is much the same. But this time we see it directly. Not told by another character, not in a minimalist style. We see what Batman does.

So his sense of "justice" is really depending on which era and which writer. It is worth noting however, after Batman beats the rapists up, he advises the girl to go home and so on and call her shrink - his concern for the innocent remains in tact.

This brings me to another point, the apparent manic behavior of Batman that exceeds the newly minted crime fighter of Y1, or the wise yet jaded Batman of DKR and DKSB. This Batman, not long from Y1 appears to be getting crazier panel by panel. (the laugh by the by, was in both Y1 and DKR. Its nothing new.) Dick Grayson is previous issues tells us how much he HATES Batman. Alfred in the last two issues now expresses serious reservations about Batman's behavior. In terms of where Batman is going, this is so telling that I am disappointed that Miller has telegraphed his punches like this.

Part of what this story is about is the origins of Robin in the Millerverse. But in doing so, Miller is asking a question most Batman writers do not - why on earth would Batman ever NEED a kid sidekick or even want one?? Most "classic" takes have Batman behaving as an experienced parent, knowing exactly what to say and when to say it. But Miller's Batman, being a much more extreme and flawed character, is not like that. He has to learn as he goes.

So again, why does Batman need a robin? In part because he wants someone to carry on his mission. But there is a more important reason I am now convinced Miller is getting us to. Batman is sliding out of control. Alfred is starting to worry if Bruce has gone mad. Bats is losing himself in his obsessions and its going to be Robin that has the ultimate humanizing effect on him. It's going to be Dick Grayson that levels him about a bit, that keeps him from becoming the thing the hates the most. You heard it here first.

2) The sophomoric repition of monologue disguised as craft?

Well I actually think the writing is fantastic and, if you have read City of Crime you'll know this, a huge fan of noir and neo-noir styles.

3)The characterization of Superman as a whiny loser and Wonder Woman as a misenthropic harridan?

How is Superman a whiny loser? Because he doesn't want Wonder Woman to run off and murder Batman? How does that make him whiny. Superman was laying down the law. He wants the heroes to behave in a certain manner, to have rules..and he understand what will happen - in a foreshadow of DKR and DKSB - what will happen if they don't. Batman is the biggest risk so far as Superman is concerned. And Supes STOPS Wonder Woman from running off to do the deed. That isn't whiny at all.

Wonder Woman: actually this is the most I have ever enjoyed Woman Wonder in a comic. Miller has actually thought the character through, which most writers don't. most writers just want her to be all wise and perfect. But Miller has it right. Diana has just arrived from a island of super powered warrior women whose only experiences with men have been, well, not good. Her island is a bloody Eden. I mean its "Paradise Island" for crying out loud. The "world of men" would seem like an awful cesspool by comparison.

So her is a powerful warrior, from female warrior utopia, in world that would to her seem totally corrupt and weak. She would naturally be completely hostile to all of it. We know from the story is still "new" to "the world of men." Obviously she mellows somewhat by the time we see her in DKSB. But right now, she is trying to cope in a world run by stupid weak men.

4)Alfred describing the last moments of Martha Wayne's life (which he was not present to witness) as realizing her son had become "a demon"?

I actually like that. Obviously Alfred is speculating based on what Bruce likely told him and his own impressions of Bruce and Martha. So far as Alfred is concerned, Bruce became Batman the moment his mother died.


As for more overall comments - there is a lot going on in All Star Batman and Robin. Batman is not one dimensional. He is both in love with his own capcity of violence, and plauged by deep doubts about his methods. Dick Grayson is wise beyond his years. Alfred is kind of a badass, a real partner and helper for Batman instead of just a guy who hangs around the manner all day. There is alot going on. And on top of it, its just plain fun. Its overtop, Miller doing what he does and I love it.

I think it is unfotunately that many people are ignoring the story and just attacking the author. I think one of the stupidest comments I read is from readers who flipped out of the issue where Bruce talks about touching his mother's breast after she was shot. There is absolutely nothing sexual about that scene - its a very sad moment of a little boy trying to stop his mother's heart from bleeding out, and realizing its too late. He can't help her. But because the word "breast" was used, some fanboys react as though they were in grade school - "oooh he touched his mother's breast. ewww!" This is sort of the bulk of the shots taken at this book and they are pretty spurious.

Obviously, not everyone is going to like it and that's cool. For instance, I cannot stand All Star Superman - which is one of the most boring books I have had the unfortunately experience of paying money for. But then after a couple of issues, I just dropped it. I stopped buying and stopped reading. And if someone dislikes All Star Batman so much they should just drop it.

Overall, this is one of my 3 fav. comics right now along with Hellblazer and Moon Knight.