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*52
Apr 22, 2007 10:22:08 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 22, 2007 10:22:08 GMT -5
Oh, wait, more from WIKIPEDIA!In 1991, Terra reappeared as part of Team Titans from a possible 2001. Unlike the original, this Terra was a true hero, and was attracted to Changeling, although he rejected her. This new Terra was revealed to be a young girl who had been exposed to a DNA virus designed to transform her into a genetic doppleganger of the original Terra. After the events of Zero Hour, Terra joined the main Teen Titans team and was told via a messenger orb that she was not from the future but from the present day, having been recruited by the Time Trapper to serve in the Team Titans, in order to one day oppose the group and its leader, the villainous Monarch. Before the orb could tell her where she was taken from in the past, Terra destroys it: upon digging up the original Terra's grave, she finds it empty. The character then disappeared for some time. Terra remained in limbo until the 1999 revival of the Teen Titans; in the "Secret Files" special, Terra is brought back and shown with Geo-Force, who agrees to perform tests to figure out who she is. When she expresses her fears that she is the original Terra, Geo-Force informs her that she is not his sister, even as the genetic tests are positive. Under circumstances which have yet to be explained, Terra also becomes affiliated with the Outsiders. (Day of Judgment #3-4) In the "Titans Tomorrow" storyline, the Titans glimpse a grim possible future, and Terra (in a costume modeled closely after her original) is a member of the Titans East, a more benign rival group that opposes the fascist future versions of the current Teen Titans. (This future's version of Beast Boy, calling himself Animal Man, still bears a grudge against Terra and wants nothing to do with her.)
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*52
Apr 22, 2007 10:54:28 GMT -5
Post by arcalian on Apr 22, 2007 10:54:28 GMT -5
The is-she-or-isn't-she troubles that Terra 2 has experienced are down to what the editors did with the character after Zero Hour. Originally, as Wolfman wrote her, he was adamant that she was not the original Terra, and her origins indicated that; she had been injected with the original Terra's DNA (to give her the powers) and mentally brainwashed by Lord Chaos into believing she was exactly the same sort of person as the original Terra (she was programmed to believe she was Geo-Force's daughter). When it came to the test (and with medical assistance from the Team Titans mysterious Leader) Terra 2 was able to reject her programming and become the person Terra 1 should have been and pretened to be; a cute girl with a smart mouth. Wolfman did all this because he did not want to bring the original Terra back (he had sworn he never would.) After Zero Hour and her timeline was erased, the editor of that time forced Wolfman to write the Time Trapper/Empty grave story. Shortly after that, Wolfman stopped writing Titans. After her inolvement in the Technis Imperiative incident (which involved every Titan then alive, wether active or reserves, as well as the JLA as it then existed) Terra 2 was briefly part of a Beast Boy-led Titans LA. It was meant to be a new second Titans book, and was written by one Geoff Johns (part of the same special where Tara got her DNA test). He was sure, and his editor was sure, they would be green lighted for a miniseries about Titans LA, and Terra's origins were to be clarified as part of that. But the mini never saw the light of day. Aside from the DOJ and Titans Tomrorow stories Charlie mentions; Tara was also present for the Titans-JSA-Superboy Prime fight during Infinite Crisis. Tara was wearing her Titans Tomorrow costume when Black Adam killed her. As you can see, Tara's been having the same problems as Donna Troy in terms of confused origins, for years. When the Terra mini was originally planned, it was supposed to be written by Geoff and answer the question of is she or isn't she once and for all. Didio put the kibbosh on that, had Tara axed, and gave the mini to Gray and Palmiotti instead, to feature a new Terra of their design (though the story of the first two Terras will be acknowledged, apparently, and the new Terra will be "connected" to the previous two in some way.) Terra 2's official entry at Titans tower: www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/terra.html#t2Further down the same page, Wolfman's commentary on Terra 2 vs Terra 1: www.titanstower.com/source/whoswho/terra.html#who
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*52
Apr 22, 2007 13:51:04 GMT -5
Post by chaltab on Apr 22, 2007 13:51:04 GMT -5
So Wolfman was adamant it be a clone, editorial forced her to be the real deal.
Either way, it doesn't matter to me as long as TERRA didn't know for sure, and as long as it was the motivation for her to do good.
Of course it's too late for that now, considering DiDio's hatred of anything that happened in the 90s.
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*52
Apr 22, 2007 14:31:09 GMT -5
Post by arcalian on Apr 22, 2007 14:31:09 GMT -5
Well not a clone but someone else genetically transformed into Terra, but essentially yes.
QFT on Didio hating the 90s. So long as he's in charge (however many years that is) things will be sparse indeed.
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*52
Apr 23, 2007 15:17:50 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 23, 2007 15:17:50 GMT -5
I disagree.
Again.
Sorry!
I love what Didio has done! Marvel has done nothing to compete with the stampede of awesome that has come out of DC in the past couple of years.
Each issue of Identity Crisis was a perfect balance of emotion and action and every cliffhanger left me gasping for breath! What was the Marvel equivalent?
Yes. Identity Disc.
Or, as Jeph Loeb dubbed it; "Identity Diss", which I think is apt.
Green Lantern: Rebirth was amazing and again, every final page was a "WTF? YUS!" moment! Johns can do no wrong for me!
And yes, even Infinite Crisis was amazing in my opinion, no matter what you say to the contrary!
Marvel is about publicity and cheap stunts, DC is about quality, and yes, there have been misteps, but I love the company regardless.
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*52
Apr 23, 2007 15:37:11 GMT -5
Post by arcalian on Apr 23, 2007 15:37:11 GMT -5
Yes, Charlie, I know you think that. I only posted here because you asked me to. But enough. You go ahead and enjoy their prouduct. I will enjoy saving my money.
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*52
Apr 24, 2007 4:30:59 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 24, 2007 4:30:59 GMT -5
Then we all win!
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*52
Apr 24, 2007 12:30:37 GMT -5
Post by chaltab on Apr 24, 2007 12:30:37 GMT -5
I bash DiDio without defending Marvel. And regardless of all the good art and emotional moments in IdC, the over all plot... sucked.
Lesbian Batwoman was quality and not a cheap stunt? Okay, so yeah, you admit that there are missteps, but again, this isn't about DC vs Marvel to me. Everything good that DC has done in the past few years has been IN SPITE of DiDio, not because of him. Infinite Crisis was good because Johns knows the DCU characters better than almost anyone else in the business. 52 worked because it had four usually-good writers on it.
But DiDio now has people like Adam Beechen, who can sometimes write a good story if there's no continuity involved.. and DiDio signs him as an exclusive despite the fact that he's disliked by nearly 100% of Cass Cain's fanbase. Morrison's JLA arc World War 3 is now second fiddle name-wise to a crappy editorial-mandated quartet of issues just seven years later. And DiDio says that the reason is that nobody in the DCU called the battle against Maggedon that? Despite the literally everyone on Earth hearing Babs say "THIS IS WORLD WAR THREE!"??
I love DC comics and their characters, and I've been enjoying some of the OYL stuff, most the Waid and Johns books. But again, the stuff I enjoy the most is the stuff that DiDio isn't pulling the strings on.
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*52
Apr 24, 2007 15:38:11 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 24, 2007 15:38:11 GMT -5
I can see the flaws just as everyone else, don't think I'm being naive
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*52
Apr 24, 2007 15:39:39 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 24, 2007 15:39:39 GMT -5
Him being EIC and all... What doesn't he have his hands on? Or is that the point?
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*52
Apr 24, 2007 21:47:05 GMT -5
Post by Romans Empire on Apr 24, 2007 21:47:05 GMT -5
Well it goes back to the bosses curse: It may not be your fault but its always your responsibility. Thats why I didn't want the focus to be on how bad Didio is in their eyes. It's too easy to blame him. Just like the the guy before him and the guy after him.
Are you sure Charlie because you just wrote a love letter about IC just a few posts ago.
There is nothing wrong with liking something others didn't. I think DC has had some stories that went after a younger audience and masked it in nostalgia. Sorry but I have been reading comics for over 20 years and I just didn't get it. Some of the younger, newer readers did.
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*52
Apr 25, 2007 14:18:55 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Apr 25, 2007 14:18:55 GMT -5
Oh come on, John! OF course I could see the flaws (what story is without them) but I love it none the less! I think the MAIN problem, in my eyes, with IC is that they tried to put too much into a seven issue mini. Bart was back as the Flash in one panel and that was it for an issue, until like... Two issues later he's back or something. That was the general thing that troubled me. Also, if Green Kryptonite from Earth 1 isn't going to kill Superboy Prime, would Red Sun radiation from Earth 1 do the job? Weird.
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*52
Apr 25, 2007 17:45:44 GMT -5
Post by chaltab on Apr 25, 2007 17:45:44 GMT -5
Also, if Green Kryptonite from Earth 1 isn't going to kill Superboy Prime, would Red Sun radiation from Earth 1 do the job? Weird. I thought that was a weak point too, though it may simply be the fact that if you use that logic the yellow sun shouldn't power him either. The fact that radiation from Kryptonite hurts Superman instantly but only causes cancer in humans over a long period of time is itself scientifically iffy. I think that's what Byrne was trying to explain in Man of Steel by making Kryptonians bound to their planet.
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*52
May 6, 2007 7:02:33 GMT -5
Post by starlord on May 6, 2007 7:02:33 GMT -5
Well, it's over folks. For those of you who read the entire thing, what did you think? All in all, was it a satisfying read? Did 52 make sense at the end. Is Brandon as happy as I am that what we had wanted a year ago, has finally come to pass... kind of.
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*52
May 6, 2007 7:06:22 GMT -5
Post by HoM on May 6, 2007 7:06:22 GMT -5
AHHH! No no no no I'm getting the last nine issues tomorrow shhhh shuhsssh! Megaverse? What the hell? Anyone care to explain?
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*52
May 6, 2007 7:29:17 GMT -5
Post by starlord on May 6, 2007 7:29:17 GMT -5
my bad. Sorry, Charlie.
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*52
May 6, 2007 7:30:15 GMT -5
Post by HoM on May 6, 2007 7:30:15 GMT -5
S'all good! I was kidding. I know the generalities, I've seen bits and pieces, and I'm just going to avoid this thread till tomorrow. Heck, I say that now, but next time someone replies I'll pop in. "This one's for the Blue and the Gold! Saving the universe one more time!" Mmm
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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*52
Aug 10, 2007 10:38:42 GMT -5
Post by Dr Dread on Aug 10, 2007 10:38:42 GMT -5
It's been a few months since 52 ended. Talking to Charlie made me remeber something really interesting. In the last issue, Rip Hunter needs to get Suspendium to trap Mr Mind. Here's a snippet to jog the memory: Well, suspendium sounds like something new? Not so! Check this panel from DC's Shazam #1 (1972): Now that's continuity!
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*52
Aug 10, 2007 13:53:01 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Aug 10, 2007 13:53:01 GMT -5
I loved *52. Simply the best series of last year.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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*52
Aug 10, 2007 21:55:41 GMT -5
Post by Dr Dread on Aug 10, 2007 21:55:41 GMT -5
I loved *52. Simply the best series of last year. It had some shaky parts to it in the middle. But the way it all tied together so tightly at the end, and never missed a shipping date makes it a legendary publishing in my books. And the last ship date? 5/2 perfect! The biggest beef I had with 52? The somehwat botched "One Year Later" tags. They messed up the Infinite Crisis spin off series, and other series never got a fully appreciable explanation of what happened (Aquaman, Nightwing to name two).
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*52
Aug 11, 2007 6:53:47 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Aug 11, 2007 6:53:47 GMT -5
and the World War Three tie in attempts to explain those changes were so bad... it was like... my god, i can do this. i can be a comic writer, because i could have explained these changes with at least 100% more pernache.
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Dr Dread
Staff
The Odious-1
Posts: 1,547
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*52
Aug 11, 2007 9:31:44 GMT -5
Post by Dr Dread on Aug 11, 2007 9:31:44 GMT -5
and the World War Three tie in attempts to explain those changes were so bad... it was like... my god, i can do this. i can be a comic writer, because i could have explained these changes with at least 100% more pernache. Yeah the WW3 tie-ins were bad, but I don't blame the writers, I blame the editors. Keith Champagne and John Ostrander were basically given a mess and told to "clean it up". The Aquaman segment especially seemed hurried and somewhat non-sensical.
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*52
Aug 11, 2007 10:18:12 GMT -5
Post by darkknight814 on Aug 11, 2007 10:18:12 GMT -5
I never really fully understood what WW III was supposed to ever do. I know it was to tie up loose ends.. but... yeah I agree it was horrible.
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*52
Aug 11, 2007 11:00:50 GMT -5
Post by HoM on Aug 11, 2007 11:00:50 GMT -5
I mean, I could have written that Batgirl section so much better. I sat there, reading, and I thought, I'm going to become a comic book writer, because at this moment in time, I'm better than Writer X. And then the Aquaman segment? It was so fake! No emotional reaction at all! It could have been so awesome! But nooooo...!
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*52
Aug 11, 2007 12:37:12 GMT -5
Post by Romans Empire on Aug 11, 2007 12:37:12 GMT -5
I just finished reading 52 the other day. I enjoyed it for the most part but I feel that the writers lost their way somewhere around the middle and never quiet found their way back.
I also thought that the WWIII stuff seemed pointless and was mostly a waste of time and talent.
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